Eternity in Heaven with God and the Lamb

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2007.

?

Will we be with God where He is now when the end comes

  1. Yes, we will be with God in Heaven, where He is now for eternity

    11 vote(s)
    47.8%
  2. No, we will not be in Heaven for eternity.

    12 vote(s)
    52.2%
  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been informed that the saved will not spend eternity in Heaven with God and the Lamb, where they are now, up in Heaven where Jesus said, I go away to prepare a place for you, and I will come again to receive you unto myself, that where I am there you may be also.
    Jesus said, in my Father's house are many mansions. (already there in Heaven), I go away to prepare a place for you.

    I believe we will be with God in Heaven where God is today. I am asking if I am alone in this belief, that we will spend eternity in Heaven where God is now, or do you believe we will not spend eternity in Heaven?

    1. In my Father's house ARE many mansions, if it were not so, I would of told you. I go away to prepare a place for you, so that where I am, THERE you may be also.

    2. The mansions were already in Heaven with the Father, how do you get around that.

    Rev 7:
    9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    11: And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12: Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
    13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14: And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    15: Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
    16: They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
    17: For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
     
    #1 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2007
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    We will not be in heaven for eternity. We will be here on the New Earth.

    Rev.21

    [1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    [2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    [6] And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    Amen!

    LE beat me to it.
     
  4. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is my understanding that the New Heavens, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem (Rev 21:1) are what the Lord is preparing for us now (Jn 14:3). We will live forever with God, and all of His people, in the New Heaven, on the New Earth, and in the New Jerusalem.

    So we will not be in the current Heaven for eternity.
     
  5. DQuixote

    DQuixote
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess we are going to have to footnote every word in a post. Provide links to a dictionary, concordance, thesarus ...... semantics are killing many, many posts. Then we debate semantics, not the original intent.
     
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    A world shaped by the self-seeking of Luther and Calvin and Adam Smith and their friends comes to disdain even the effort of the Catholic Church to remind men that everything, without any exception whatsoever, in the lives of men and their nations must be shaped by the true Faith, must be conducted in light of man's Last End, must conform at all times and in all places to the binding precepts of the Divine positive law and the natural law, both of which are explicated infallibly only by the Catholic Church. A world that accepts separation of Church and State as good rather than aberrant is one in which people lose sight of who they are, rational creatures created by God and who are meant to be with Him for all eternity in Heaven, and how they must pursue excellence in all things as befits redeemed creatures. A world that accepts the separation of Church and State as good results inevitably and inexorably in the exaltation of the material over the spiritual, disdaining all voluntary renunciation of the goods of this world as foolish and denouncing as madness those who accept the Catholic Church's Social Teaching on matters of politics and on the general principles governing economics.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    Are you quoting someone here, or are these your words?

     
  8. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0
    I keep going back to the example Jesus gave us when He walked on this earth. We are separate from the world. We are commanded to go and preach the gospel but are also told to render unto Caesar (the government) that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's. We should participate in the political process and support our leaders but erasing the line between church and state inevitably requires a compromise on both sides. We should speak out on moral issues but should not try toalign the church with any political party. I know first hand that that kind of approach can turn many people away from the gospel.
     
  9. DQuixote

    DQuixote
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's one heckuva quote, BroBob. Wow.

    I agree with BaptistBeliever. With all the denominations around unable to agree on the essentials of our walk, and with all the debate swirling around on the BB and similar boards, merging with a political party, in effect forming a theocracy, would be disastrous. At the same time, I do not refrain from voting and speaking my mind in letters to the editor, writing to the President and Congress, supporting candidates who identify with Christ, etc.
     
  10. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread stems from another one as I am sure most of you are aware and I THINK Brother Bob was trying to get confirmation that his accusations of me being basically off my rocker in almost every area of theology was in fact true.

    However I think even Brother Bob would have to back away from such a hard stance as I think his poll has shown that there are in fact others that would agree with me that "heaven" as a great majority in Christendom preach is not our final desitnation.

    So maybe I ain't so looney after all huh Brother Bob . . .

    The very purpose of man's existence from the very beginning was to be the rulers over this part of God's kingdom. There is nothing in Scripture that has ever changed that original set of marching orders that I am aware of anyway.

    God intended man to rule over the earth and one day man will in fact rule over the earth.
     
  11. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do support this that we spend eternity in Heaven with God. Sorry for the confusion.
    psalms 23:
    1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
    2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
    3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
    4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
    5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
    6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. (David had never heard of a thousand year reign).

    2Sa 12:23But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

    David never heard of a thousand year reign.
    __________________
    Brother Bob,

    .............
     
    #11 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2007
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    I think I must be.

    I probably need to see that quote in context to pick up on everything that is being said in that quote. It is quite dense. (Not a condemnation, but an observation!)
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am of the simple position that as a true child of God Christ is my life and my eschatology (Col.3:3,4). What is meant by a New Heaven and a New Earth as reported by John is where I will be, for Christ is my life and my eschatology.
     
  14. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    The great Protestant reformer, John Calvin, taught in the 16th century that people were "predestined" to either be among the elect (those who will spend eternity in Heaven) or the damned (those who will be punished for eternity in Hell). From that belief was derived the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." Protestants who follow Calvinism teach that a person who is once saved will never lose their salvation. Their followers can relax in the security that they are certain to spend eternity in heaven
    "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon
    I go to a land which the plough of earth hath never upturned, where it is greener than earth's best pastures, and richer than her most abundant harvests ever saw. I go to a building of more gorgeous architecture than man hath ever builded; it is not of mortal design; it is "a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens." All I shall know and enjoy in Heaven, will be given to me by the Lord, and I shall say, when at last I appear before Him—

    Dwight L. Moody: Heaven and Chicago


    Chicago was the world headquarters for the evangelist Dwight L. Moody. During the World's Columbian Exposition in 1893, Moody and his associates ran a camp meeting in tents in Jackson Park that drew crowds of up to 150,000 people per week. He delivered his sermons worldwide, as well as publishing collections. Moody drew heavily on anecdotes and examples from Chicago and other cities that he preached in, as in this selection from “Heaven and Who Are There”:
    Men who say that Heaven is a speculation have not read their Bibles.... My friends, where are you going to spend eternity? Your life here is very brief. Life is but an inch of time; it is but a span, but a fibre, which will soon be snapped, and you will be ushered into eternity. Where are you going to spend it? If I were to ask you who were going to spend your eternity in Heaven to stand up, nearly every one of you would rise. There is not a man here, not one in Chicago, who has not some hope of reaching Heaven. Now, if we are going to spend our future there, it becomes us to go to work and find out all about it. I call your attention to this truth that Heaven is just as much a place as Chicago.


     
    #14 Brother Bob, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2007
  15. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Slightly off topic, I think, but since it was brought into this thread by Brother Bob, let me say that -

    "I believe in the separation of "church" and "state".

    But I do not believe in the separation of God and country."

    Think about exactly what I have said, here! If my memory is correct, after so many years, I attribute this to Dr. Jim Martin, from whom I heard it. And I agree fully with that.

    Ed
     
    #15 EdSutton, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2007
  16. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did not vote in the pool, 'er I mean poll, for I think we are given two false options, in it. The attempt, while I understand where about all who may have voted are coming from, to define this so narrowly is faulty. The closest I could agree with is the wording of Martin.

    Ed
     
  17. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    While I might agree that you and many others on the "BB" including me, may be "off their rocker", what does that have to do with what you, me, or anyone else believes? :laugh: :laugh:

    "Just because I'm loony, doesn't mean I'm necessarily right OR wrong. :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
    #17 EdSutton, Jun 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2007
  18. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Glad you admitted posting this quote, in error, here.

    It seems kinda' a case of "the pot calling the kettle black", for that author to accuse anyone else of being "self seeking", when the quote itself could well be labeled "Exhibit 'A'" in the "self-seeking" category, IMO.

    Ed
     
  19. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Presently we go to where God is when we die (Heaven)

    Eventually we will return to earth with Christ, and God will dwell with man forever here (New Earth)

    This may be a matter of semantics, but I believe Heaven is where man lives in God's presence (currently in Heaven...eventually here), and what I think Brother Bob may be saying.
     
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    I obviously can't speak for Brother Bob, but there are a great many people that literally think we are going to spend eternity in the heaven where God currently resides. Entire witnessing programs have been built around that.

    Now once you start to ask questions of folks and they realize that the current residence of God is not our premanent residence then that's what they will say. Well where ever I end up with God that will be heaven to me.

    And that may be okay to think, but semantics are very important, because God said there is life in every word that proceeds out of His mouth.

    Much confusion reigns in Christendom because of a lack of concern for semnatics.
     

Share This Page

Loading...