Ever Have This Happen?

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Tom Bryant, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    I am in the midst of a series about Abraham. Yesterday was on Abraham and Hagar. I could not deal with the story without dealing with the issue of Abraham's sin of adultery no matter the cultural norm.

    In our early service we do not have a nursery or children's program because 99% of the people are older. But into this service come visitors with 2 7-8 year olds. :eek:

    I had some anxious moments because of fearing I would provoke some questions for parents later on. But finally decided to go ahead full blast on the importance of Biblical moral standards rather than accepting what a society says, feeling that God knew who would be in the service when He led me to preach it.

    From glancing at the kids during that section of the sermon, I feel reasonably certain that it went over their heads, but I still felt kind of strange.

    Ever had that happen?
     
  2. abcgrad94

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    We have a precious little 8 year old girl who has been coming to church. She has "two mommies" (who do not attend) and we've all been wondering what would happen the next time my dh mentioned homose*uality from the pulpit. We are worried that they won't let her come back if something like this happens, but hubby will not change what God would have him preach or skip the topic if it comes up in scripture. (He is tactful, though.)

    So, yesterday morning, the topic DID come up in scripture during the morning message. The interesting thing was, right before dh came to this part of the sermon, the little girl had to get up to use the restroom. She was only gone a few minutes, but by the time she came back, hubby had moved on to the next point. You could almost hear the whole congregation breathe a sigh of relief.

    I know at some point she will hear the truth, but right now she is a baby Christian and gets easily confused about spiritual matters. It's almost like an angel tapped her on the shoulder or something.
     
  3. glfredrick

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    When did it become okay to shield our children from the truth? Isn't that part of the problem?

    The anti-Christian side has no qualms whatsoever of teaching our kiddos to do obscene things and think obscene thoughts in the classroom or built into the televising programs targeted at our children, yet we walk around like we are on egg shells at church of all places.

    God was/is not afraid of human sexuality and neither should we be afraid. Just deal with the subject tactfully in a biblical manner, straight up.

    From what I've seen, most kiddos at age 8 can already tell their parents a thing or two about sex... You should hear what I get to hear on a regular basis... The illegitimate daughter of a lesbian couple across the street pounding on the door to get in the house and screaming, "You're not a man and you are not my daddy! Let me in!" Think she knows a thing or two about human sexuality? Or perhaps the two Mexican families living at the end of my street. There are about 30 in each 2 bedroom house. Great people, love 'em, but their kiddos know about stuff that we shield our own kids from, just because of the way they are packed in. Sort of reminds me of the log cabin days of our nation's founding... Large families in a one-room house... They knew also.
     
  4. abcgrad94

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    I think for many Christian parents, it's not about shielding children from the truth--it's about exposing them to that truth at the proper age. It's also a good idea to let parents be the ones who teach certain things to their children--not the school, not the church, not the neighbors.

    I agree with you that the subject matter can be presented in a tasteful, yet truthful way, with the details left up to the parents.

    When my oldest was about 10, the subject of circumcision came up in Sunday School. Her teacher simply presented the lesson for that Sunday, and when questions arose, she instructed the kids to ask their parents at home. I thought that was a good move on the teacher's part.
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    Can't see where anyone is suggesting that we shield children from the truth. When you see what Paul wrote about sex it is basically that husbands and wives ought not to stay away from each other for any prolonged period of time and that the marriage bed is undefiled. I am still trying to find what Jesus said about it.

    Trust me I know that kids know more than parents give them credit for. But I also believe that it is the parents responsibility to teach them about sex. Personally I think it is wise and Biblical to be wise concerning good and innocent concerning evil. (Romans 16:19)
     
  6. glfredrick

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    I totally agree about parents teaching their children about sex. I also know that most either don't or can't. After doing a ton of marraige and family work, I've come to realize that there are a lot of people with hang-ups about sex, including just talking in an adult fashion about it. I've seen long-term married couples acting as if the act of marital sex is something dirty or taboo. I rather doubt that those people could talk to their children, even if given the opportunity. That's why the kids are turning to other avenues.

    I believe that we can and should bring up the subject -- in a tactful way -- IN the church so that our people don't have to go outside the church to discover the wealth of what God had to say on the subject.

    I often preface remarks about married relations with, "Its okay... We're married. We get to!" :laugh:
     
  7. matt wade

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    It's not about whether or not parents should teach a particular subject at home or not.

    Quite simply, if it is in the Bible, it is appropriate to be preached on.
     
  8. Tom Bryant

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    But the question is "what does the Bible say about sex?"

    This isn't my first rodeo. I've been in ministry for over 30 years. I have preached thru the book of Song of Solomon and talked about "those" passages. I have preached thru Romans 1 and talked about same sex issues. So I am not afraid of dealing with passages about sin. But, preaching about sex is one thing but we better be careful not to go farther than the Bible does.

    Maybe we're saying the same thing, but I watched with horror what happened a few years ago about the "30 Days of Sex" and wondered after watching the sermons where they got that in the Bible.
     
  9. Salty

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    The whole point is if the kids understand what the Bible teaches about HS-then go home an tell the "parents", those "parents" will probally prohibit the kids from comming again - then how does the church minister to those kids? Should the pastor sit down with the "parents" or what?
     
  10. matt wade

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    Well, we certainly shouldn't minister to them by acting as if certain sins don't exist. A pastor and a church have a responsibility to preach the whole Bible. If people (even little kids) get offended by that, then so be it.
     
  11. Salty

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    The point is not offending anyone -and its not so much offending the kids - if the "Parents" do not allow the kids to come - How do we minster to children.
    I see this as a very serious problem.

    And do you preach/teach against gluttony and other "minor sins" even if you were to offend a fat person? Remember they are both sins-

    I believe we need to preach the Bible, but I trust the Lord has given me tact as well. I am currently in a somewhat similar situation involving one of my church members.
     
  12. matt wade

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    Yes, of course you preach/teach against gluttony. I never understand it when people go to this argument. Whenever a discussion is to be had on preaching against homosexuality, someone invariably brings up "do you preach against gluttony and other 'minor' sins". First, gluttony and homosexuality are both sin. Both separates you from God. And the resulting sin will give you a one way ticket to Hell.

    Personally, I've never been in a church that hasn't preached against gluttony and other 'minor sins'. Maybe some of your churches just don't preach against sin very well?!

    As for the child or person that may be offended by the Truth...sorry that's just too bad. The Truth is the Truth and it must be preached. If it offends, then it offends. I won't play the seeker friendly game.
     
  13. Salty

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    I'm just curious, your profile doesnt indicate, but are you a pastor?
     
  14. matt wade

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    No, I'm not.

    Sorry...just realized this was in the "Pastoral Ministries" section of the board. I generally just look at what new threads are available and don't really pay attention to the section :).
     
  15. Salty

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    I dont think it is a problem if non-pastors post in this section.

    But to answer your question about "Whenever a discussion is to be had on preaching against homosexuality, someone invariably brings up "do you preach against gluttony and other 'minor' sins' "
    I was trying to show an analogy. Actually, very infrequently have I heard a minster preach against gluttony. Often it is easy to speak out on the so called "major sins" but we stay away from the minor ones, esp the ones that many of the church folks are quilt of - particularly those who are large givers.

    But I repeat my original question - how do we minister to someone if we drive them away - especially children if they are prohibited from attending. Yes, at times we must hit sin head on, but other times we need show that special love to reach someone for Christ.

    Salty

    PS - maybe BB should have have private forum just for Pastors - what say you pastors and moderators?
     
    #15 Salty, Sep 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2010
  16. Tom Butler

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    A few years ago, an African-American Baptist pastor was picketing an adult movie house in my city, along with some of his members. Someone threw that question in his face, "Why don't you preach against so-and-so?"

    He replied, "I don't preach on every sin every Sunday, but I get to all of them sooner or later. This is the one I'm gettin' to tonight."
     
  17. Salty

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    I love that answer even if he was an ABC pastor :thumbsup:
     
  18. blackbird

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  19. glfredrick

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    This thread has turned a corner from the OP into a discussion of should we preach this or that.

    On that subject, I think that there are always two ways to approach the subject -- positive and negative. We can preach a positive message where we lay out God's design and God's plan for marriage, eating, talking (gossip) or any of the other sins mentioned in the Bible. In other words, we preach life instead of death. Or, conversely, we can preach a negative message where we lay out the sin and preach all about what is wrong, how God hates it, etc. In other words, we preach death instead of life.

    There is a place for both, but in large part, we'd be better served to preach life and the positive example versus death and the negative example. Correctly crafted, the sermon on any one of these sensitive sin issues can be a life-changing Word from God where the church member knows the heart and mind of God and strives to move in a god-ward direction. However, I greatly fear that a good many pastors only know how to bring a negative message in this regard. That has, at least, been my experience when sitting under the preaching of others or hearing the testimony of other preachers here and other places.

    As a for instance, on the topic of marital relations, we can preach on the "goods" of marriage as expressed by God in His Word. Since marital relations are pre-fall, and virtually commanded by God, we can teach our congregation that God's plan (in a positive sense) is for a man and a woman to be married, then to satisfy each other in marriage because that is what God designed into us. This is, of course, exemplified by Jesus' teaching on marriage and further exemplified by Paul's writings, not to mention the "manual of operations" found in the Song of Solomon. In this case, we lay out the positive benefits of a happy and satisfying marriage as opposed to preaching against the evils found when life is not so satisfying, and we paint a picture of life instead of death.
     
  20. abcgrad94

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    I wish we had a private forum just for pastor's wives.
     

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