Ever heard Deut 30:11-30 read in church?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have never heard it read. If you have heard it, how was it explained????????

    Deut 30
    9 And the Lord thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the Lord will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:

    10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

    11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

    12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

    13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

    14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

    15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

    17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

    18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
     
  2. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've read it many times. It seems pretty straightforward to me. God was set the choice between following Him or flitting around with the false gods of the land clearly and gave the consequences that would come with each choice. The rest of the OT tells that what God said would happen is exactly what DID happen when the nation of Israel chose to follow God and when they chose not to.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    that it was meant to be applied by isreal, so why would a church have it read all the time?

    We CAN defintly take away a spiritual application, to obey the lord and refuse to follow our 'false gods", but wasn't the direct a[[;ication to isreal while under the law?
     
  4. Jope

    Jope
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Verses 9-10 are speaking about a continuation of verses 1-8, they're speaking about the Millennium.
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    VV 11-14 clearly teach that every normal person CAN obey the Torah to God's satisfaction.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    you JUST cut out the heart of the gospel, and made the death of Christ null and void!
     
  7. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >you JUST cut out the heart of the gospel, and made the death of Christ null and void!

    Only according to your theology.

    In my theology nothing in the NT contradicts Torah. Especially nothing Jesus taught contradicts Torah. The Noahic Covenant applies to the entire human race but nothing in the Mosaic Covenant claims it applies to gentiles in Newark. The people who came out of Egypt with Moses are told that the Law is within their grasp, not gentiles in Toledo.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    jesus greater than the Torah though, as Moses was but a servant of the Lord, Jesus is the Lord!

    We foolow the Gospel of Paul and the other Apsotles, as the Torah NEVER could save any one, as it was NOT given for that purpose, but to drivethe sinners to God and His Grace!
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    Bill this is quoted by Paul in Romans 10:6-7 in contrast to us keeping the law (Rom. 10:5) but in direct reference to Christ completely satisfying the law (Rom. 10:4) as the good news of the gospel (Rom. 10:8-10).

    Paul's design is clear. The Law says YOU do this and live which only ends in bad news. However, Christ is the end of the law for righteousness and so faith does not say WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO to help Christ come down and satisfy God's commandments and then raise from the dead to overcome sin but faith says the word of the gospel this obedience has been finished and all you do is RECEIVE it by faith! Wonderful passage!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    what we could not do in keeping the law, as were are all sinners, jesus did do! By his obedience to god and by his perfect keeping of the law, God can credit sinners who receive jesus as Saviour/messiah, and declare them to be as rightous as jesus Himself is!

    Think about that... We are seen same as jesus is in the keeping of the law!
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    You got it! And you got it by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone!
     
  12. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >jesus greater than the Torah though, as Moses was but a servant of the Lord, Jesus is the Lord!

    Satan can't cast out Satan but Jesus can cast out God? Think about it.
     
  13. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >Bill this is quoted by Paul in Romans 10:6-7 in contrast to us keeping the law (Rom. 10:5) but in direct reference to Christ completely satisfying the law (Rom. 10:4) as the good news of the gospel (Rom. 10:8-10).

    I think God speaks clearly but Paul's writings as transmitted to us is inconsistent.
     
  14. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    >>Think about that... We are seen same as jesus is in the keeping of the law!


    >You got it! And you got it by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone!

    If I can sneak in under the gate by application of this legal fiction, I'm not complaining. God is a Philadelphia lawyer, not a mathematician.
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    So you reject the inspiration of the New Testament Scriptures?
     
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    There is nothing fictious about legal substitution by imputation. Do you think that you have to get on a cross and die "FOR" your own sins? Or is it "legal fiction" that Christ died for your sins on the cross? If he can die "FOR" your sins why cannot his LIFE be substituted for yours in God's court of law?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    he wrote exactly what the Holy Spirit inspired him to record, so you are really saying here that the Holy Spirit is inconsistent!
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    Think he has the error that RCC has, in that either "jesus paid it all, or else I still owe God all!"
     

Share This Page

Loading...