Every knee shall bow and tongue confess

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, May 25, 2011.

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  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon
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    Do you believe this means that one day every single person will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord, or is this speaking of only His elect?

    If it means every individual, how do the totally depraved, natural, unregenerate men destined to an eternity in hell make such a confession without first being made able to understand and believe through the effectual work of God? In other words, if men can't bow and confess Jesus as Lord without first being effectually called (or regenerated) then how does every individual do this?
     
  2. JesusFan

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    satan knows jesus is Son of God, Demons Know that fact also...

    ALL will acklowedge that Jesus is the Lord, not in a saving faith sense, but by a mental assent to this truth...

    Satan/demons/lost people will do this, not in a saving fashion, but with a shudder fasion....
    Will be like Humans knowing God is real powerful etc from His creation, but that does not save anyone, so ALL will see jesus as h ereally is, as God almighty nasd that revelation will force them to confess what can be seen and known by "natural man"
     
  3. Skandelon

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    So, the natural man can indeed bow their knee in genuine belief that God exists and confess with their mouths that "Jesus is Lord," but not in a "saving fashion?" How is that? Is it because they are being forced to bow and confess by fear? How is that different from being caused to bow and confess through other effectual means? Aren't they all doing what they desire, according to their natures?

    It says the demons believe and shutter, but they don't bow and confess Jesus as Lord. In fact, doesn't scripture say that false spirits can't confess that Jesus is Lord?
     
  4. JesusFan

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    They can ackowledge that he is who he claimed to be, Son of God, but NONE of them will be submitting to His Lordship, just making a fact based upon the evidence...

    they will all have a" head", but not a "heart" , knowledge of Jesus Christ...
     
    #4 JesusFan, May 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2011
  5. Skandelon

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    So, you are presuming that their tongues will be lying when they confess, "Jesus is Lord?" Right? How do you know that?
     
  6. JesusFan

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    just saying that one can know the "facts" of something, yetrefuse to apply it to themselves in a personal way...

    example would be that I can "know" that someone is the President, yet refuse to have him as "My president"
     
  7. percho

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    Being no one wanted to consider this on my thread Something to munch on that was the point of my thread.

    JF what about this verse: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Cor. 12:3
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Jesus is Lord of all...saved,or lost.The unsaved who said we will not have this man to reign over us will bow and confess that very thing and know they are in hell justly for their sin...without mercy.
     
  9. Skandelon

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    So, would you bow before this president and say, "You are my president," then?
     
  10. percho

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    1 Cor. 12:3 YNG wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus [is] anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus [is] Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.

    Is this verse relative to the OP. If it is are some going be given the Holy Spirit then it be taken away and they cast into hell fire?

    Is the OP relative to the following?

    Are these two thoughts synonymous?

    that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,

    And

    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ,

    From 2 Cor. 5:19 and Eph. 1:10

    If so how do they relate to Calvin and Arminius?

    Just what is God doing and how is he doing it?
     
  11. DHK

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    You are taking this verse out of its context.
    I can get an unsaved Roman Catholic to say that statement.
    I can even get a Muslim to read that statement out of a Bible.
    Does that mean that either one of them are doing so by the Holy Spirit?

    Of course not! You have taken the verse out of context.
    Chapter 12 begins a section on spiritual gifts. It is likely that that verse is speaking about the abuse of tongues, saying Christ is Lord in a language you don't understand by another spirit. If it is by another spirit you might be saying Christ is not Lord. But only by the Holy Spirit would one confess that Christ is Lord.

    Speaking in tongues was a common phenomena in pagan religions. Read 1Cor.12:2 for context, where Paul refers to the pagan background.
     
  12. percho

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    I understood 1 Cor 12:3 to be in the same context as Matt 16:15-17
    He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


    Are the people in the OP confessing that Jesus is Lord as truth from their heart or in anguish as in why didn't I believe that before? What is the context of their confession?
     
  13. DHK

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    No, they are very different contexts.
    The context of 1Cor.12 is spiritual gifts.
    "Now I would not have you ignorant brethren concerning spiritual gifts."
    The context of Mat.16:15-17 is Peter's great confession of Christ being the Messiah. That is a very different context. The two are not even related. In the former they were using their pagan past (probably speaking in tongues) and not knowing what they were saying, confessing Christ by a false spirit that he was someone else and not Christ. Satan is a deceiver. The true Spirit, the Holy Spirit would be revealed because He is the one that would confess that Christ is Lord, not a false spirit from their former pagan past.
    In the OP it states that every knee shall bow; every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    Personally I believe that this will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment before the final sentencing of all the unsaved. They will have no other choice but to declare that Christ is Lord. Then they will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
     
  14. percho

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    IMHO I do not think verse 3 has anything to do with tongues. I believe Paul did not want them ignorant of the following concerning the Holy Spirit from God. That it is.

    and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; the Spirit of truth,

    By truth one can not say Jesus is accursed.
    Only by the truth can one say Jesus is Lord.

    When they spoke from their dumb idols they were speaking from themselves not from God.
     
    #14 percho, May 26, 2011
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  15. DHK

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    Your interpretation doesn't make sense. The very fact that I can get any unsaved person to read 1Cor.12:1-4, and even a Muslim (Islam being a Satanic religion) to read that portion, proves your point to be entirely wrong. They can say that Christ is Lord. Anyone can, unsaved or not.
     
  16. percho

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    Are you saying they can say it even though they do not believe it with or without the Holy Spirit? I understand if this what you are saying. However in the context of every tongue shall confess, can they confess that without the understanding that comes with the Holy Spirit.
     
  17. DHK

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    At the Great White Throne Judgement, they will confess that He is Lord. They will have not other choice.

    But simply to say that he is Lord, every person that has ever made a false profession in Christ (and there are many) has done that.
    Your original post stated:

    "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Cor. 12:3"

    There are many that can "state" that Christ is Lord.
    But the context is not about simply "stating" that Christ is Lord.
    The context is "spiritual gifts." Verse two speaks of their pagan past. In their pagan past they spoke in tongues. That is what I believe it is speaking about--false spirits as opposed to the true Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
     
  18. JesusFan

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    Nope...

    More like 11 Apostles/paul bow down to jesus and say "You are MY Lord"
    Judas will bow and say, along with Satan "You are THE Lord, but I have no relationship with you, do ackwoedge you are God, that is all..."
     
  19. JesusFan

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    Also think Apostle paul wrote in in understanding of term being one of Lordship/personal relationship..

    Christian say Jesus is their Lord, both that He is God and also their personal Saviour and Lord...

    Unsaved Satan Demons can say jesus is God, mental assent head knowledge not in a heart/saving way relationship meaning intended!
     
    #19 JesusFan, May 26, 2011
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  20. Skandelon

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    But how do you know that when it simply says every knee will bow and tongue confess. It doesn't qualify it saying "some will meant it and others won't." How can you be sure of your interpretation?
     
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