Every Knee Shall Bow, Every Tongue Confess...Voluntarily or Compulsion?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InTheLight, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. InTheLight

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    Philippians 2:9
    Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
    10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    We know this day is coming. The day when all of history culminates at the name of Jesus.

    Will the unbelievers voluntarily bow down on their knees with the awful realization that they were wrong about Jesus?

    Or will God force them to kneel?
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

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    I believe it will be voluntary. A forced confession would mean nothing.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    added………


    Forcing someone to bow and confess brings no glory to God.
     
  4. Zaac

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    I think it will be the involuntary response to God's Holiness. Fight it all you want, but when you stand in the presence of Our Lord and Savior, you're bowing whether or not you want.

    That matter that we are made of knows to bow in the presence of its Creator even if a hardened heart doesn't.

    Reminds me of The Philistines and Dagon.

    1When the Philistines captured the ark of God, they brought it from Ebenezer to Ashdod. 2Then the Philistines took the ark of God and brought it into the house of Dagon and set it up beside Dagon. 3And when the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the Lord. So they took Dagon and put him back in his place. 4But when they rose early on the next morning, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the Lord, and the head of Dagon and both his hands were lying cut off on the threshold. Only the trunk of Dagon was left to him. 5This is why the priests of Dagon and all who enter the house of Dagon do not tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod to this day. 1 Samuel 5:1-5
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    ing, so why would they have a change of mind then?
    They will still be sinners, so God will have to force that upon them, for they denied Him in their life while living, so why would they have a change of mind then?
     
  6. InTheLight

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    Here's another relevant passage. It appears the actions of these people were voluntary.

    Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
    16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
    17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
     
  7. InTheLight

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    Regarding the passage in Philippians, our pastor says there will be a multitude of people praying the right prayer but at the wrong time.
     
  8. Gina B

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    Sounds like a natural response.
     
  9. righteousdude2

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    It will be involuntary out of holy respect for the power and authority God yields over all He created.

    Here is why I say involuntary! John 18:4-8, "Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

    If any doubt the spiritual power of God, then they are seriously mocking Him! If these in the crowd of soldiers were dropped to the ground, what shall happen when the entire world is before His presence. I don't believe it has to do being "forced" but rather out of holy recognition of the Creator in His full Holiness. If His presence doesn't have the effect of surrender, then I don't know what would?
     
    #9 righteousdude2, Aug 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2015
  10. InTheLight

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    Great post RD2. I had forgotten about that passage. Very applicable to the OP.
     
  11. righteousdude2

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    Thanks ITL. I believe many forget that passage, and yet it remains one of the most powerful in the Gospels, when it comes to the awesome authority of Jesus in His deity. Shalom. :type:
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Your use of this verse ins inappropriate and not in the context equal to the verse in the op. The op is speaking of reverence and worship. What happened here is neither of those things. It was most certainly a display of God's power but their being knocked back and falling to the ground was not in worship.
     
  13. InTheLight

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    I agree. Over 180 views and not one response from the resident Calvinists. I wonder why that is? Possibilities:

    1. If God forces people that he knew were not elect to bow down and worship Him, that throws a monkey wrench into their theology. What kind of a God forces people He's damned to Hell to worship Him? That doesn't bring Him glory.

    2. If the response to bow down is voluntary and filled with regret then Calvinists have to admit that free will exists for the already damned. They say unelect people are totally depraved and dead to God, yet here are actual dead people worshiping Him.

    Kind of a tough place for Calvinists.
     
    #13 InTheLight, Aug 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2015
  14. OnlyaSinner

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    For the same reason the rich man (Luke 16) had a change of mind - they learned the truth but too late. That rich man evidently had no interest in the Lord during his earthly life, but while in torment fervently wished that his brothers might avoid his fate. I've heard the phrase, "There are no unbelievers in hell." from several sources - unbelievers in life, believers after facing God in judgment. Too many will be like those in Jeremiah 8:20 - "The season is ended, the harvest is past, and we are not saved."
     
  15. righteousdude2

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    My mistake. They were knocked to the ground in a spirit of humility before the presence of God through the Son. And that will be something all will do when they stand before God. Their rebellious, contrary, proud ways will have to humble themselves before the God who will ultimately judge their unrepentant spirit and life choices. Choices that excluded the forgiveness of a loving, but jealous God.
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    Well, you did get a Calvinist response, in that I hold to Calvin's eternal security teaching, believing once saved, always saved. I just don't believe in the "elect" doctrine, because I believe God opened the door to salvation to any and all who repent and come to Him.

    To believe in the doctrine that some were chosen, is as exclusive as the doctrine of the 144,000 teaching of the Jehovah Witness church. And before Calvinists jump me for comparing them to JW's, please know that is not true. It's just that their is more room in heaven besides a spiritual clique.If God sent His Son for a select few, than that is not the same God I was saved by. :godisgood:
     
  17. Aaron

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    Seriously?
     
  18. Bro. Curtis

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    This is a pretty sneaky way to debate.

    I believe the lost bowing and confessing Christ in their last moments, and "his sheep know his voice" are compatible viewpoints.
     
  19. InTheLight

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    If Calvinists believe that everything that happens is decreed by God, and that totally depraved people are "dead" to God, then they have to say that kneeling and worshiping Jesus at the end of time is compulsory.
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

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    I don't believe that at all, and this should have been put in the proper forum. I know my words don't carry a lot of weight around here but this is disappointing, coming from you.

    Being confronted with the Glory of God in Jesus Christ in the flesh will cause people to fall down in awe. It will be as voluntary as the gasp you make when you get bad news. I wouldn't call the gasp compulsory, more like a natural reaction.

    To attack Calvinism with this tack makes no sense.
     

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