Everyone that believes will be...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jbh28, Jan 18, 2011.

?

Everyone that believes in Jesus Christ will be

  1. saved!

    86.7%
  2. might be saved if they are elect

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. other, please explain

    13.3%
  1. jbh28

    jbh28
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    be saved
    might be saved if they are elect
    other, please explain

    I have stated that I believe 100% that all that believe will be saved. I have had those that opposed the doctrines of grace to say that I don't believe that. (It's weird that others know what I believe and I don't :rolleyes:). This is a poll to see where everyone stands. Are there people that will believe, but because they are not elect, will not be saved. Does God say "no" to anyone that believes?

    this is not a trick question. I'm not talking about believing in the dirt or the sun, or money. I'm speaking of biblical faith in Jesus Christ.

    And please keep discussions to believing in Christ for salvation. This is not to be an attack thread. I'm not attacking anyone and don't want others to attack anyone. This isn't a debate about what you think Calvinism is, but about the subject.
     
    #1 jbh28, Jan 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2011
  2. Jarthur001

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    I know what a Calvinist will say. They agree with Scripture...all that believe are saved from their sins.
     
  3. TC

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    Y'all are right. Those that believe are saved. Those that do not believe are condemned.
     
  4. Don

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  5. Rippon

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    All Scripture From HCSB

    James 2:19 :"You believe that God is one;you do well.The demons also believe --- and they shutter."

    That verse has nothing to do with saving union with Jesus Christ.

    Hebrews 10:39 :"But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed,but those who have faith and obtain life."

    I fail to see how this verse negates saving faith.
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    It must be a saving belief in the Jesus of scripture;
    True saving faith does not resist the truth of God.
     
  7. annsni

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    Do the demons believe in Jesus.

    I don't think believing IN Jesus is the key. It is believing ON Jesus that is the key. If you believe on Jesus for your salvation, then you will be saved. Of course all of those who believe on Jesus are the elect and all of the elect will believe on Jesus. :)
     
  8. Amy.G

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    Yes the demons believe. But have they submitted to the authority of Christ? Do they bear the fruit of the Spirit? Do they love the brethren (Christians)? Do they obey the gospel?

    This is what separates belief in the existence of God and true faith in Him.
     
  9. jbh28

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    Very well stated Amy!
     
  10. annsni

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    Yep - so to me, it's not believing in Jesus that saves one. It's believing ON Jesus. One is a head thing (you know it in your mind), the other is a heart thing (you actually believe it and act on it).
     
  11. mets65

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    Its about accepting Jesus as your savior.
     
  12. RAdam

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    Really? I thought Paul said it was about being "accepted in the beloved (Christ)."
     
  13. RAdam

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    People see election and predestination as exclusive. This is why topics like this come up from time to time. People ask the question: what if some who are not elect believe? Will they be saved or left out? These questions show a misunderstanding of the doctrines of election and predestination.

    These two things are not exclusive, meaning they do not exclude one from heaven. Rather, they are inclusive. Man, through sin, had separated himself from God. He is a fallen being, dead in sin, and is under condemnation. Without the intervention of God, that is where he would remain and, upon death, would be cast into eternal punishment. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Thus, anything God did unto man at this point would not excluse him from anything. God electing a people in Christ based upon the good pleasure of His will and in total harmony with His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, doesn't excluse a single soul from heaven. Rather, it brings people into heaven. Election is unto this end: that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Predestination is unto this end: the adoption of children by Jesus Christ unto Himself, in whom we have obtained an inheritance in accordance with this predestination. Thus you see, that these things aren't leaving people out, but bringing people in. Without election and predestination, and all the other parts of salvation, man would remain separated from God and would end up in hell.

    Furthermore, Paul tells us the the Father has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Paul tells us this is in harmny with His election of us in Christ before the world began. So all spiritual blessings are in Christ and logically follow election. There is no such thing as a spiritual blessing outside of Christ. Faith is a spiritual blessing. You and I were blessed with the faith whereby we believe in the Son of God in Jesus Christ. We were blessed with that faith in Christ in harmony with God's election of us in Christ before the world began. Thus, if one has faith then that faith came from God and was bestowed upon that individual in Christ in accordance with the fact that God chose that individual in Christ before the foundation of the world. Hence, if one believes, then that person is elect. Nobody outside of God's election will receive spiritual blessings because there are no spiritual blessings outside of Christ.
     
  14. Winman

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    Amy, the devils know and believe who Jesus is, but this cannot save them because no promise is made to them. God has never promised to save fallen angels, only men.

    This is what I tried to explain in another post, if Limited Atonement is true and Jesus only died for a few persons, you cannot know that the promise of salvation applies to you unless you know you are elect.

    Yes, if you are elect, then Jesus died for you and the promise is to save those who believe. Even a Calvinist does not believe he is saved UNTIL he believes.

    But if you are not chosen, you are not elect, then Jesus did not die for you according to Limited Atonement. The non-elect are just like the devils who believe and tremble, their faith cannot save them because no promise is given to them.

    Abraham didn't have some magical, mystical faith. No, he had a very specific promise to him personally. No one else could claim this promise except Abraham.

    The devils have no promise, and Jesus did not die for them. They know this, and they believe. But they tremble.
     
  15. jbh28

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    And the non-elect will never believe. So it still stands that every Calvinist here believes that everyone that believes will be saved. Of course we are talking about genuine belief.
     
    #15 jbh28, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2011
  16. RAdam

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    The problem is the non-elect do not believe and have no faith. People are given spiritual blessings in accordance with God choosing them in Christ before the foundation of the world. Being blessed with spiritual blessings in according to election, not outside of election. There is no such thing as a person outside of Christ having faith.
     
  17. RAdam

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    By the way, the devils don't believe by faith. We do. We believe by faith because we have never seen God or heaven. Faith allows us to believe in things we have never seen.
     
  18. Winman

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    You don't get it. The devils really and truly believe Jesus is the Son of God. It is genuine belief. But they also know that no promise of salvation is offered to them. Read the scriptures, they know their fate. When they encountered Jesus they cried and begged that he would not torment them before their time.

    God promised Abraham that he would have a son, and through his son would be the father of many nations.

    You can't claim that promise, and neither can I, that promise was to Abraham alone.

    Now for us, we must believe that Jesus died for our sins and depend upon this for salvation.

    Now how can you be sure that Jesus died for you if he only died for a few men?

    Oh, you claim I misrepresent the doctrine of Calvinism, then I present evidence that many Calvinists are worried whether they are elect.

    You can't have it both ways, either you are elect because you believe, or you believe because you are elect.

    Calvinism teaches you believe because you are elect, therefore the only way you can have faith and assurance is to know you are elect.

    Non-Cals can know we are elect because we believe, and we can believe because we know Jesus died for us and his promise applies to us.

    Think about it, maybe you will get it.
     
    #18 Winman, Jan 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2011
  19. jbh28

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    Through faith in Jesus Christ. There is nothing about wordering if you are elect or not. The Bible doesn't say for whosoever is elect... it says for whosoever believes. Big difference. Of course it's the same people, but we believe, God elects.
    First, what evidence was that? Did you supply any quotes from a Calvinist claiming they were not sure if they were really elect or not? I didn't see any.

    Second, please realize that there are many differences among Calvinist. I saw a video the other day of a guy going on and on about how John Piper wasn't really a Calvinist. This guy was a very hyper Calvinist. You need to recognize that.
    You believe because you are elect. I'm think I've been pretty clear on that. You know you are elect because you believe.
    No, the only way to have faith and assurance is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Election is about why a person believes. God chose them.
    That's where you misrepresent Calvinists. Calvinists "know we are elect because we believe."
     
  20. jbh28

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    I find it interesting that Winman doesn't agree that everyone that believes in Jesus Christ will be saved. And he accused me of not believing that. Double speak much? So I say we know we are elect because we believe. And we know we are saved because we believe. Winman say we know we are elect because we believe, but he doesn't agree that you are saved.
     

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