EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON: Misunderstood Comment

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Matt22:37-39, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    This has been one of those cliché’s Christians often throw around without truly understanding its meaning. Although this phrase cannot be found in the bible, there is some truth to it, if used in the right context. Romans 8:28 is often used to back up this man made statement. It wasn’t until a few years ago that God revealed to me what this quote and Romans 8:28 really means, as it needs to be lined up with God’s word and cannot contradict it. I have found that the way many Christians use this verse contradicts a foundational truth, which will be explained in a bit. Plus it must be read in CONTEXT of the whole chapter.
    Instead of throwing cliché’s at hurting people we need to present the truth of what Romans 8;28 really means.

    The paradox is found in trying to combine God’s SOVEREIGNTY with Man’s FREE WILL. To say that “Every Thing Happens For A Reason” and that “God Works ALL Things Out For Good”….leaves out man’s Free Will. Yes things happen due to natural cause and effect. Does that mean it is God ordained…not in the sense that He controlled every situation, or for you to do something or say something. He wouldn’t have you do or say something against His character. You made that choice now you have to live with it. We also cannot keep OTHERS from doing what they are doing to us, or what might affect us. God could if he wanted to (but that would go against His nature) direct and control everything, including what one does or says. He could even do away with Satan (and He will someday) and keep Satan from attacking His children. But God has chosen not to do this because who wants someone who ONLY loves you because you made them…not real love then is it? God is a jealous God and wants OUR LOVE and devotion.

    What God has revealed to me over the years in my head and heart is this one truth. God gave us the Holy Spirit in us to HELP us do the ONE thing an unbeliever isn’t able to, and that is allow God to do His work for good, thus FULFILL Romans 8:28. He also cannot fulfill this with a disobedient Christian who is going their own way. See here is the key to it all and if followed fulfills Romans 8:28 and all of God’s number one desire for His children………
    GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY…..Is just as powerful a fact as man’s free will. Obviously like I said God and can DO anything He wants. But He chose to set creation up in a way that glorifies Him. We were put here to Glorify God. I’m going to explain how I see the two fit together and you see if it makes any sense?

    God has a part and I have a part. These two parts must fit together to make a functioning whole. Now if man’s free will is pulling in one direction and God’s is trying to draw him towards Himself….are all things working for mans good?...obviously not. I have been saying what I am about to say for many years, my response is often a puzzled look on many a Christians face….THE ONLY THING I AM CALLED TO DO AND IS WHAT GOT ME IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN THE FIRST PACE…THAT IS TO YIELD/SUBMIT to His call to His will….God’s job or part is to do the WORK. 1 Cor 3 is a great example of this. Jesus is the FOUNDATION and it is the work that God has done IN you and not the work of your flesh that is going to count. Our works will not be judged, it says, our FAITHFULNESS will be. As we yield God works.

    So how does this all fit in with Romans 8:28…simple, most don’t take into consideration what “TO THOSE WHO LOVE GOD”, mean. Romans 8:28 only applies to those who LOVE Him, who are submitted and yielded to His will. This is done through prayer and reading of His word and obedience of course. Kind of like a child who submits to his parents authority, now I can work with that child in guiding him to do what is BEST FOR HIM. As one TRUSTS and is yielded to God’s sovereignty, God does His work IN them (He is the potter I am the clay) and through them. He makes it so ones OUTLOOK and DESIRES are right in lines with His….how much better can you get? That is the GOOD that Paul is talking about….it doesn’t change your circumstances, but it does change your focus which is an ETERNAL FOCUS…no longer one that is on Self or this worldly goods. The other is true too, if you do NOT yield and trust God He CANNOT and WILL NOT do His part and work with you and help you…He may intervene as a way to nudge you and get your attention back to Him…but only true MIRACLES and true PEACE can happen as one is solely focused on Him!...do I want just a part of God’s blessings or ALL?
     
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Brother, welcome to the Baptist Board. It's obvious you have given much thought to your OP; some I agree with, some I might question, but it is thought-provoking.

    I notice you list yourself as non-denominational. The Baptist Debate and Fellowship forums are for Baptists only. Below that are forums for all Christians. Feel free to post in any of them. Maybe the moderator will move this one to the right place.

    I look forward to reading other posts from you.
     
  3. webdog

    webdog
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    I'm missing how the phrase is misunderstood. Its a given that all thing are either decreed or allowed by God. Knowing this, there is a reason He either decreed or allowed it to happen. This applies to both good and bad things. Its not so much a paraphrase on Romans 8 as it is admitting God is sovereign and has a purpose for every action even though we might have no idea why something happens.
     
  4. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Tom thank you...I spent more years in the Baptist church than any other. In fact most of what I know was from a IFB...who actually saw that God wasn't one extreme or the other...but balanced and so shall we be.

    Most Baptist churches have changed their name and even their denomination to non denominational.
     
  5. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    To Webdog, I see the confusion. What God ALLOWS is mans free will. Not so much He allows things to happen for a purpose....but He can take that which is bad and turn it around for good.

    God is not the author of confusion or anything bad...Satan is. All good and perfect gifts come down from the father above.

    We live in a fallen world, with a fallen nature, struggling with a fallen angel and our sin nature.

    God's desire is that we yield and he does the work. I think the bible is pretty clear that the good God does is the WORK IN US...that is the good that Romans 8:28 is talking about
     
  6. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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  7. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
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    Welcome!

    Brother...I like Tom wish to welcome you to the Board and thank you for a well thought-out post. I also enjoyed reading it and look forward to more. You will find much here to provoke you to thought and find good fellowship with many. Thanks for your comments.:thumbs:

    Bro.Greg
     
  8. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
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    Welcome Matt 22:37-39.

    A though provoking thread, indeed.

    At this stage in my quest to become mature in the word of God, I'm one of those who believes that everything happens for a reason. Two words I'm trying to omit from usage are: luck and coincidence.

    Was it just "luck" that John Doe missed his flight when the plane crashed and everyone on board died?

    Was it "coincidence"? .... On a 4-lane highway late one night, I hit a patch of ice on a bridge and totalled the front of my car on the railing. Wound up in the median, at the end of the bridge, when the car finally came to a stop. Stood beside it trying to get attention of another driver for help. Fellow stopped on the other side of the median. I was away from my car when another driver hit that patch of ice. His vehicle came to rest on mine. Had I been standing where I was, I would have been crushed in the impact.

    Luck - No. Coincidence - No! I wasn't killed that night because there was a reason why God didn't call me home, some twenty years ago.

    Went to the link you posted. Read it with interest, as 2 Tim 2:15 (KJB) is one of my guideposts today. If memory serves, this is the first time I've read commentary on "Randomness and Assurance: Does Everything Happen for a Reason?". As is my habit of late, I also read the comments, when available, on commentary.

    How would you respond to the comments posted by Lucas Knisely?
    One snip from Knisely for a reference point....
     
  9. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
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    God Is ALWAYS In Control

    OT...I didn't take the time to read that whole article in detail but I did look at Exodus 9:16 and the thought that came to mind is that that makes for an interesting comparison between Pharoah and the purpose God had for him as compared to the situation we see in this country RIGHT NOW with Obama in the white house. God used Pharoah and his "rule" to bring judgement on Egypt just as he is using Obama to bring judgement on our country in this generation. It also validates the teaching in Romans 13:1 that the "powers that be are ordained of God" which further validates and illustrates the sovereignty of God. Those are the thoughts that came to mind for me in the course of reading this thread.:thumbsup: I'm sure there is far more to be mined from here.

    Bro.Greg
     
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    Matt, do you care to give us this "Context" that will show us what Romans 8:28 really means? You didn't even quote the entire verse, much less give it context.
     
  11. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Romans 8:28-29

    "28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren"

    According to this verse one must KNOW (intimately) God they are His children. And it is obvious that one must LOVE the Lord in for Him to CAUSE all things to work for their good....he can take what is bad and make it good.

    God would never desire a child to be kidnapped, raped and murdered, nor does he want a woman to be raped...but there are evil forces at work and when those evil forces mess with His children he asks them to TRUST in Him and Love Him regardless and only then will one experience "the peace that passes all understanding"...just common sense. Their circumstances haven't changed, but God can help them bring GOOD out of it either as a spiritual witness to others, or they take some kind of action and make changes so others do not get hurt, or both.

    If one FIGHTS either the WILL OF GOD or decided to be hardened from the experience, then how can God work with them?
     
  12. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    You have done nothing to show that things happen without purpose.
     
  13. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    By the way, all I have seen from your posts so far is that your god is too small.
     
  14. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    OK, I see what your job is

    :godisgood:
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron
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    He sent His Son to be murdered.
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Scripture tells us what the Lord wants us to know about Him. It is certainly enough to understand the Gospel and obey His commands. When a verse say all thing work out for good for those that love the Lord, I take it at that. It is up to me to obey His commands, which shows I love him. And actually could not do this apart from His grace. I will let the Lord figure out the intricate details of each situation that arises in life and follow Him. Scrpiture is not a science project to be examined in a laboratory.
     
  17. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    You will not be able to post assertions around here without backing them up without being challenged on them.

    The passage is clear: For those who love God, the ones chosen according to His purpose, all things, even evil things, work together for good. The greatest evil in the history of the world was the murder of the only sinless man who ever lived. That crime was the greatest good that ever happened to any of us and yes, it was part of God's decree.

    God still is in control of all things that ungodly people do too, but things do not work together for their good.

    So, to answer the title, yes, everything happens for a reason. Even when babies die, hurricanes happen, when someone loses a job etc.
    The verse does not say all things are good, but that they work together for the good of those chosen by God.
     
  18. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    That is very good!
     
  19. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    What does that have to do with anything? Jesus went WILLINGLY
     
  20. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Michael and Saturn you can believe what ever you want, just don't go around throwing cliches at HURTING people thinking you are helping them when you are not...to flippantly say "All Things Happen For A Reason" like God CAUSED it to happen, when that isn't true...it is what ONE DOES with the bad that happens that counts.

    It says God CAUSES all things to work for GOOD to those who LOVE Him, if one doesn't love Him, than He cannot work out that good...sound pretty plain and simple to me.

    He who has ears let him hear!
     

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