Except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, May 18, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lk 13:3-5

    3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

    5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Most take this passage to mean that Jesus is Teaching Repentance to be performed by a sinner as a condition , or in order to get saved, however that is not what Jesus is saying at all. Jesus here merely made a declarative statement that was True, simply because those who are not given repentance from Him as their Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31, will no doubt perish in their sins. Repentance in regards to Salvation is given [not offered] by God, for Christ is God Our Saviour, if He indeed saves us. Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Note: If Christ does not give us Repentance, then He is not Our Prince and Saviour !

    It [Repentance] is given by Him as proof or evidence of Him being our Saviour, for its a Change of Mind. As men in the flesh we are void of this type of repentance, for if man could change their minds by our own so called freewill, it would not be necessary for Christ to give it, or to bestow it upon those He is saving !

    This Repentance that Christ gives to Israel or His Church or His Elect is the New Birth. 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    This being begotten again, the New Birth, is God giving us Repentance. Why is that ? Because the words here begotten again is the greek word anagennaō and means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    You see that ? It means to have ones mind changed ! What is Repentance in Lk 13:3-5 ?

    The word repent there is the greek word metanoeō and means:


    to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

    2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

    What can be more plainer ? Repentance is the fruit of the New Birth ! So in actuality, what Jesus is saying in Lk 13:3-5, is that except you are born again, ye shall like wise perish ! No New Birth by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3, then no repentance, and therefore we perish in our sins without a Saviour !
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Yes, and he equally gives justifying faith (Jh.6:64-65) which is INSEPARABLE from repentance as you cannot turn from something without turning to something else! Of course you are blind as a bat and so the truth will be like water running off a "duck's" back.
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Preach Repentance in my Name !



    Lk 24:45-47

    45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


    Jesus never told His Apostles to preach repentance as a condition for salvation, as the Antichrist ministers tell us, but He told them to preach Repentance and Remission or Forgiveness of sins in His Name among all Nations, or Ethnics ! This word preached is the greek word kēryssō
    and it means to:

    to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

    a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

    b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

    2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

    3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers

    Note, never does this word mean offer or make available.

    The main emphasis here is to publish or proclaim or make something known that has been done or accomplished. For Two things here Jesus tells them to Make Known, that is Repentance and Forgiveness of sins have been done, accomplished in His Name !

    The word Name here means:

    the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.

    Through His Work, His Person, forgiveness of sins and repentance have been accomplished for those He died for ! Both of these Blessings, Repentance and Remission of sins are both found in Him and given by Him to His Elect People. If you do not believe me, we shall read what Peter preached, as he is one of the ones Jesus was speaking to and commanding to go Preach in our text ! Acts 5:31


    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Peter in his sermon here states unequivocally that the now Risen and Ascended Saviour of the Church is above to give [not offer] Repentance and Remission of sin to who ? Yes Israel, or His Elect, or His Church or His Sheep. For remember He also was raised from the dead as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20, which is the same as being raised from the Dead as the Saviour of Israel, so Israel and Sheep are the same, and we know that all His Sheep are not jews by His comment in Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Now at this juncture, Peter did not command anyone to repent, but specifically Preached or Made known what Christ had accomplished or done by His Work, and What He is now doing to them He is now saving.

    Repentance is part of His Saving Work, to give it, and so is enlightenment of having ones sins remitted for His Names Sake ! Eph 4:32

    And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,

    So we fail to Preach Repentance correctly without making it known that it is given to God's Elect in Behalf of the Person and Work of Jesus Christ, or in His Name, and for His Sake !
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    the bib

    Of course He does, it comes with the New Birth, and it is the Justification of the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    However, the Spirit's Justification is subjective and it is before the consciousness of the New Born Elect.

    But the Justification previously in the name of the Lord, that Justification is before God and based solely upon the Finished work of Jesus Christ, and all the Elect whom Christ died for, are born with this Justification on record before God, but it is not known by them until after their new Birth !

    You cannot mix up the Justification provided by the blood of Christ, and its fruit of Justification provided by the Spirit of God !

    The scriptures teaches 3 types of Justification, and confusing them can be to our eternal peril, may God grant those who are His elect a understanding.

    First and foremost, there is Justification before God, which is totally and 100% the Work of Jesus Christ, and the accomplishment of Jesus Christ.

    Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Rom 5:9

    9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Rom 3:24

    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [blood] that is in Christ Jesus:

    Secondly, There is Justification before our consciousness, which is the work of the Holy Ghost per 1 Cor 6:11

    11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Rom 5:1

    1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    And thirdly, there is Justification before men, by the believers own testimony [word and deed] James 2:23-25

    23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


    24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    This act of hers, did not make her Justified before God, for that she already was by the imputed Justification of Christ, but it made her to appear Justified before men, especially those spys, and for us today who read of this testimony of scripture of her and this deed.

    There will be also yet in the future, a Justification of all of Gods elect before the whole Universe in the day of Judgment.

    Now, even though all the above Justifications are important and should be rejoiced in, the First one [Justification before God by Christ work] is the most important, to be wrong on that one , makes the others that are subsequent wrong as well !

    Now you best save this post, for it is a witness against your errors !
     
  5. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    First, you can dispense with the harsh name-calling of the brethren who may disagree with you.
    Second, both Jesus and the apostles preached the command to "believe" on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, a command given in the present. It is not something accomplished in the past but something one must do in the present on the basis of what was done in the past.

    What does it mean to believe or "have faith"?
    When one puts their faith in Christ what happens? The object of their faith is Christ. Paul put his faith in Christ on the road to Damascus. He, at that time believed, and called Christ "Lord," something no Pharisee would ever do. He had a change of mind toward Christ. Before that time he was a persecutor of Christians. Now that he called on Christ or believed on him, he was submissive to him and willing to do whatever he said. "Lord what would you have me to do"? he said.

    What does repentance mean? It is to have a change of mind with respect to one's attitude to God. What happened to Paul? He had a change of mind with respect to his attitude to God. Once he was persecutor of Christians; now suddenly he was submissive to God. See how repentance and faith work together. You can't have one without the other. The two are two sides of the same coin. Thus in the NT, the command is "believe" (have faith). Repentance is included in faith. It is part of the very definition.
    Never is this given in the definition. You have added this. It is to proclaim the gospel. The word simply means "proclaim". Why are adding your own words, thus distorting the definition. It doesn't mean "something which has been done."
    Again, you just keep adding to the simple definition of "proclaim." You should have stopped while you were ahead.
    Proclaim is proclaim. To proclaim a message. Jonah proclaimed the message of repentance in Nineveh and warned the people that judgment was coming unless they would change their ways. Judgment was averted.
    Proclaim; herald forth. You should have stuck to the definition you first gave. It doesn't say "sins have been done, accomplished in his name." You added that perverting the message and the definition of the word."
    No it doesn't. It means proclaim, herald forth, as you first said. Why do you keep adding things that aren't there? You keep digging yourself into a pit that you can't get out of.
    Now you have gone of to an unbiblical theology all starting from a simple definition of a word that you have continued to add to throughout this post. Who gave you that authority?
    "Those who he died for is all the world" See John 3:16,18,36; 1John 2:2
    Remission of sins are given to all that call on him.
    To all that call on him; to all that believe on his name.
    You can't so easily dismiss the rest of Scripture.

    No, they are all those who have believed on him of their own choice.
    They are saved by believing on his name and all are given the opportunity to do so.
    Repentance is part of faith as explained above. Eph.4:32 has nothing to do with salvation.
    Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. Anyone who puts their faith in Christ will be saved.
     
  6. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting, while I agree with you here why does this get nailed but when he says everyone who disagrees with him is lost that gets a pass?
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    dhk

    Yes they did, but not in the scriptures I am teaching now, which you complteley ignore !

    I just gave you the definition of the word preach in Lk 24:47

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    Again, its the greek word kēryssō

    to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

    a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

    b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

    2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

    3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers

    If all you can do is deny something, and call that debating, I am afraid you do not know what it is to debate. Its more than just denying something !
     
  8. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Even if you had the truth (and you don't) who do you believe you are going to convince with this nasty attitude of yours?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    What was the command of the Apsotle peter about this?

    repent and come to believe in Jesus in order to get saved!

    The Gospel was profcalimed in jerusalem on pentacost, and those who the Lord saved came to faith in jesus, all those ordained/set apart by God to hear and believe on Jesus!
     
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    The same thing is True when Jesus says except ye become as a little child or be converted, ye shall not enter the kingdom ! Matt 18:3

    And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    This is just another way of Jesus saying saying this Jn 3:3

    3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    That occurs for everyone that Christ died for by His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Except ye be converted in the greek is passive voice, we must be converted, which occurs through New Birth from above !

    Repentance is a part of being converted !
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    At what point in the process does one place faith in Christ?
     
  12. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    That point is never given in scripture.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,134
    Likes Received:
    52
    isn't it when we put faith in jesus and get saved by Grace of God?
     
  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Incorrect! Paul uses the perfect tense for "saved" in Ephesians 2:8 which refers to a completed action in the past that stands complete right up to the present. However, that completed action in the past was performed "THROUGH FAITH"! Hence, faith occurred at the same point of completed action or else we were not "saved THROUGH faith" but "saved APART FROM faith."

    Furthermore, a person is either quickened or dead and so there is no PROGRESSIVE time between life and death spiritually. In Ephesians 2:5 the term "saved" represents an Aorist tense and here it must be a punctillar completed act. Hence, faith occurred at that POINT where we "passed from death unto life (Jn. 5:24 - perfect tense).
     
    #14 The Biblicist, May 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2012
  15. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    You? Teach? No, you don't teach; you just set forth your ideas, many, if not most, do not line up with Scripture.
    And you added to it, and then added to it again, and then kept adding to it, so that in the end you had something that didn't even resemble the word "preach" or "proclaim." And you call that defining a word??
    In point #2 where do you get "something that has been done". Many prophets proclaimed judgment which was about to happen. That is what Jonah did. Your definition is wrong at that point. Or do you deny that Jonah preached? Paul preached to Felix, "of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come," and then it says, "Felix trembled." Paul preached of the present and of the future, not of the past.
    I deny your warped definition because it is not true and I showed you it was not true.
    I have shown you it is not true again.
    If all you can do is deny that my post is not true and then call that debating, I am afraid you do not know what it is to debate. It is more than just denying something!
     
  16. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    A lot of "reading between the lines" there. But nothing scriptural to back it up. We need to be careful not to let our "intellectualism" override exegesis.
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,188
    Likes Received:
    207
    Do you understand the perfect tense? It refers to a completed action that continues as a completed state. That is not "intellectualism", that is grammar. Paul first uses the Aorist tense in Ephesians 2:5 "saved" followed by the perfect tense in verse 8 "saved" where he uses a paraphrastic construction. The clear exegetical point is that quickening took place at a POINT in time and that point was a COMPLETED ACTION that continues completed. This is not only the grammar but it is the common sense conclusion as either a person is spiritual dead or spiritually alive and the transition between one and the other is not a progressive action (or else he would have used incompleted action verbs).

    Furthermore, he continues to describe this "quickened" action (vv. 1,5 - transition between words "quickened" to "saved" in verses 5,8) to an act of creation by God in verse 10 ("Created in Christ Jesus"). Creation is not a progressive action but a completed point action between what was not but which now is.

    Finally, this "quickened" "saved" "created" act that occurred at a punctillar point (v. 5 Aorist tense) was performed "through faith" NOT APART FROM FAITH. Hence, Faith was involved within that pivotal punctillar action. If not, he would have said "saved in addition to faith" rather than "THROUGH" faith.

    Hence, there is no "intellectualism" here but simple exegetical facts.
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    dhk

    No I did not. Here it is again, the word for preach used in Lk 24:47

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    The word is kēryssō and it means:


    to be a herald, to officiate as a herald

    a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald

    b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed

    2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done

    3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers

    Repentance and Remission of sins have been accomplished, done, by the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. He gives them as Saviour to His Elect, or Chosen ones ! Peter Preached that here Acts 5:31

    31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Thats not a command here, its a declaration, of what God has done through Christ.

    Neither does Jesus here tell them to command repentance to everyone i nthe world, He says Lk 24:46-47

    46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    Now if you do not believe that, its too bad !
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I don't believe you because your definition is wrong.
    Here is your problem. Take an English dictionary and look up the word "church." List all the definitions just as you listed all the definitions for preach in this post. Now you can say you have defined the word "church." But you haven't. You have listed various definitions for, not all of which are correct, and not all of which fit the Bible. Context must be made clear or the definition will never be known.

    For example in the word "church" often we define it as a building, but the Bible knows no such meaning.
    Likewise in your definition: "to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done," is absurd. That may happen some time. But much of the time our preaching is done in the present tense and in the future tense.

    Concerning the gospel Paul wrote:
    2 Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

    Now is the accepted time (present tense)
    Now is the day of salvation (present tense)


    Tomorrow may be too late. (Future tense).
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    dhk

    You do not believe the word of Truth i witness of !
     

Share This Page

Loading...