Existence of Satan

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Scott J, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Why do you think God created Satan knowing that he would rebel?

    Why do you think God allows Satan to continue operating?

    Why would God allow Satan to deceive the majority of people into going to hell?

    Please use scripture as much as possible to support your views.
     
  2. Phillip

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    Whoo! And I thought the evolution thread was difficult. Good questions, I'm not sure your going to find a lot of scripture though. I think these are things we just might have to ask when we get there. IMHO.
     
  3. Glory Bound

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    Even thought it is largely taught that Satan rebelled and has power over the lives of people, it's not truly proven in scripture. There are two passages, one in Isaiah and one in Ezekiel that some say indicate Satan's fall - but that is a stretch and many others don't believe they speak of Satan at all. Excluding those passages the customary story of Satan's fall evaporates into legend.

    I personally believe we can cause plenty of our own problems without having to have a "fallen angel" following us around to cause more problems. The sooner Christians understand their own responsibility for their actions the better.
     
  4. Scott J

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    Agreed. We got into this discussion with my youth group the other night and I made the same point about us causing our own problems.

    The best answer I came up with so far is generally that it glorifies God in some way that would not be possible without a significantly powerful adversary.

    Thanks
     
  5. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    I will be watching this thread with great interest.I think we sometimes allow satan more power than he really has and give him credit for more than he deserves.He is a powerful adversary but we have a FAR MORE powerful God.Oh...that we would know HIM...and the POWER of His Resurrection!!!If we did,we'd definitely be overcomers and have victory over the world,the flesh,AND the devil!

    Greg Sr.
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    There is only ONE Devil with his minions of demons. I'm always amazed at how people think the devil is bothering them when there's so many more people doing mighty things for God!
     
  7. Scott J

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    These must be harder questions than I even thought.
     
  8. iride4jesus

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    Here are the scripture that actually reference the name Satan. These are some of the reasons God created him.

    1 Chronicles 21:1
    [ David Numbers the Fighting Men ] Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.
    1 Chronicles 21:1-3 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 21 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 1:6
    [ Job's First Test ] One day the angels [ Hebrew the sons of God ] came to present themselves before the LORD , and Satan [ Satan means accuser . ] also came with them.
    Job 1:5-7 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 1:7
    The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD , "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
    Job 1:6-8 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 1:8
    Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
    Job 1:7-9 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 1:9
    "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
    Job 1:8-10 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 1:12
    The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD .
    Job 1:11-13 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:1
    [ Job's Second Test ] On another day the angels [ Hebrew the sons of God ] came to present themselves before the LORD , and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.
    Job 2:1-3 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:2
    And the LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD , "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
    Job 2:1-3 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:3
    Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."
    Job 2:2-4 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:4
    "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life.
    Job 2:3-5 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:6
    The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."
    Job 2:5-7 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Job 2:7
    So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.
    Job 2:6-8 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
    Psalm 109:6
    Appoint [ Or They say: "Appoint (with quotation marks at the end of verse 19) ] an evil man [ Or the Evil One ] to oppose him; let an accuser [ Or let Satan ] stand at his right hand.
    Psalm 109:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 109 (Whole Chapter)
    Zechariah 3:1
    [ Clean Garments for the High Priest ] Then he showed me Joshua [ A variant of Jeshua ; here and elsewhere in Zechariah ] the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD , and Satan [ Satan means accuser . ] standing at his right side to accuse him.
    Zechariah 3:1-3 (in Context) Zechariah 3 (Whole Chapter)
    Zechariah 3:2
    The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD , who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?"
    Zechariah 3:1-3 (in Context) Zechariah 3 (Whole Chapter)
     
  9. Soulman

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    Quote:"Why do you think God created Satan knowing that he would rebel?"

    It was so the angels as well as man would not be robots. If we were created in the image of God, we had to be given choices.

    Quote: "Why do you think God allows Satan to continue operating?"

    Because Christ being the second Adam, we end up with the same choice he had. To serve God or Satan.

    Quote:"Why would God allow Satan to deceive the majority of people into going to hell?"

    The bible teaches that our hearts are desperately wicked. The majority of people seek comfort and not truth. Most willfully reject the true God. Hence..Religion.

    I know I was weak on scripture here as I didn't have much time. I can support it later. However I believe the theology is correct.
     
  10. gopchad

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    Excellent post Diane! I whole-heartedly concur. We must remember taht as Christians, our enemy is 3-fold... THe world, THe flesh, and the Devil. The Devil won't bother with us most of the time because we are defeated by the flesh and the world.

    Chad
     
  11. Bro. James Reed

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    A question for those who believe Satan and other angels actually fell from heaven. If he did, then when we go there will we be subject to the same?

    If an angel can fall from heaven, why not people?

    As to the main topic, I don't know why God created Satan. He doesn't tell us why, so evidently He doesn't think it is imperative knowledge. I'll ask Him when I die and then I'll get back with you. ;)
     
  12. Phillip

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    This is just speculation, but in order to give his number one creation "man" a choice there had to be something opposite of God. Opposite of God is evil. Therefore, although Satan was not created evil, he became evil (of course God knew this would happen and allowed it to happen). IMHO
     
  13. HankD

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    Proverbs 16:4
    The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    Psalm 115:3
    But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    Revelation 4:11
    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Genesis 18:25 ... Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
     
  14. Hamtramck_Mike

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    Satan was created in order that God might bring Glory to Himself in the Perfect Person and Work of His Son Jesus! Christ's death on the cross and subsiquent resurrection is the culmination of that goal. Satan is defeated!
     
  15. RTG

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    Ephesians:6:10-12,What do you all think of what Paul was telling us in Ephesians?I think theres alot more going on around us than we realize.I like that verse from Psalms.

    [ February 12, 2005, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: RTG ]
     
  16. IveyLeaguer

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    No, Brother. 1Thessalonians 4:17 - "and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
     
  17. Keith M

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    Angels are created beings whose intended abode was heaven. They do not have souls which can be saved.

    People are also created beings. Our intended abode was the earth, but since people have souls, we have the ability to choose to accept or reject Christ and His free gift of salvation. Where we will spend eternity is our own decision - but once we die and we are in eternity, there will be no going from one place to the other.
     
  18. Alcott

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    We all have an ego, whether we like to admit it or not. So, if it were within your power to create a living, feeling, rational being just to be your adversary whom you will defeat and then damn to eternal torture, would you do it? IOW, how God-like, or Christ-like, are we on this point?
     
  19. av1611jim

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    Why did God create Satan/Lucifer?

    Same reasons He created you or me. To love, have fellowship with, recieve worship from, and delegate authority. God did it because He loves. Long before man, there were the angelic hosts. Like man, the angelic hosts were given choices. And like many men, they wanted their own way. The leader of this rebellion was Lucifer/Satan.

    To ask why did God create Lucifer/Satan knowing he would rebel is no different than asking why He created man knowing he would rebel. Does God have pleasure in the death of the wicked? No. Nor does He have pleasure in the rebellion and subsequent punishment of the fallen angels. But God loves. Because He loves, He also offers the freedom to love Him or not.

    God made the angelic host to rule the heavenlies. And man to rule this earth in the stead of Satan who had the charge of this earth before, during and after his rebellion until Another would come to take the Kingdom from him. (Remember Saul and David? Saul ruled for a long time after he was disqualified.) When man fell, (who was created to rule this earth in the place of Satan who fell) he forfeited his right to rule until Another Man would come to redeem man and restore to man his intended place. One day, that Other Man will come and all will be made right again.

    Of course God knew all this in advance. So why did He do it, knowing both of His created beings (angelic and man) would rebel? Because God loves. And love is no love without an object to love. So it pleased God to embark on this grand plan. We, and the angelic host, are created for His pleasure. Like it or not. Personally, I like knowing I can please God by simply trusting and obeying Him.

    God didn't create Satan/Lucifer just to defeat him and toss him in the lake of fire. NO. God created him for the same reason He created us. To rule this earth and to love God because God first loved him. But for Satan/Lucifer it wasn't enough. Nor is it enough for multitudes of men.

    "And they (redeemed man) lived and reigned with Him a thousand years" but after that, God shall dwell with them in the New Earth and the New Heaven and they shall be His people and He shall be their God.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  20. av1611jim

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    A few of the multitude of Scritures concerning the government of Satan, of man, and of God and its unfolding before our very eyes. Many in our churches today haven't even bothered to look into the meat of God's word to see what His plan for us really is. It is the realization of this truth which has led me deeper into the responsibility and accountability of the christian life.
    God's plan is SOOO much more than just saving us from hell so we can float around on a cloud. He has marvelous rewards available for us if we would just trust and obey Him.

    You ask why did God create Satan? For the same reason He created all the other angels. (To rule over all the individual provinces of the heavenlies.) But Satan/Lucifer was given this world to rule. He rebelled. God then made man to take his place. He rebelled. Then Jesus came to make things right. And the Bible is that story.

    Ge 1:27-27
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


    Isa 14:26-27
    This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
    For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?


    Mt 12:26
    And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

    Lu 10:18
    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    Lu 22:29-29
    And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
    That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Ro 8:38
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    Ro 8:39
    Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Ro 16:19-20
    For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
    And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

    1Co 15:24-26
    Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    Eph 3:9-11
    And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
    To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
    According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    2Ti 4:18
    And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    Jas 2:5
    Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

    Re 2:13
    I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

    Re 12:9-10
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    Re 17:17-18
    For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
    And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    Re 20:4
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Re 20:6
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    Re 21:1-7
    ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    Re 21:23-26
    And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
    And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
    And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
    And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

    Re 22:1
    ¶ And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
    And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
    And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
    And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    This is the story of the Bible. It is one of governments in the heavenlies and in the earth and God's plan to redeem this ruined earth and its inhabitants, and ultimately restore MAN to his place of having Dominion over this earth.

    I am sorry this is so brief.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     

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