Eye of the Needle

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    For years we have taught / been taught, that in Mark 10, that to enter Heaven we would have to bow like a camel. Does going thur the "Needles Eye" a correct meaing of Mark? This apparently is not the meaing of the passage..
    Is the needle an actual gate or is it an actual sewing neede. Now the concept of the camel bowing is a great parable - but how should we teach/preach Mark 10?
     
    #1 Salty, Feb 27, 2014
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  2. OldRegular

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    Matthew19:24. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Mark 10:25. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Luke 18:25. For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


    I simply compare the words of Jesus Christ to what the Apostle Paul tells us in 1st Corinthians.

    1 Corinthians 1:23-29
    23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
    24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
    26. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
    27. But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28. And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29. That no flesh should glory in his presence.
     
  3. Salty

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    I Cor says nothing of a needle
    So is it a sewing needle or is it the "Eye Needle" of the gate?
     
  4. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    It's a gate. There are those who dispute this fact, based on the Needle Gate not being mentioned in the Bible. But every ancient city had one, either carved into the city wall, or as part of one of the main city gates.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Well no person is going through the eye of a sewing needle unless they are in the initial conception phase!
     
  6. OldRegular

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    I never heard that in order to enter heaven we had to bow like a camel. I thought we just had to be one of the "true believers"!
     
  7. OnlyaSinner

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    I don't think it really matters whether Jesus was referring to a small gate or to a sewing needle. The underlined portion of the 1 Cor. passage, above, along with the account of the rich young ruler, Matt 6, etc. make it clear that it is utterly impossible to reach heaven based on one's riches - even more impossible than putting a large animal thru the eye of a tiny needle.
     
  8. kyredneck

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    'Entering heaven' is not what the passage says:

    Mark 10:25. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Luke 18:25. For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
     
  9. webdog

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    Distinction without a difference.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    So the Jews were kicked out of heaven?

    11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
    12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Tis true:thumbs:
     
  12. Aaron

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    I just read a little further about Christ's testimony of the impossibility of men putting a camel through the eye of a needle. So, if it's a gate that camels cannot get through in one piece, then fine. Call it a gate. But if a camel can't get through in one piece, then it might as well be the eye of a needle.
     
  13. kyredneck

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    Or was heaven taken away from the Jews?:

    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. Mt 21
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Where your soul going when you die?

    The kingdom the Jews thought was theirs really was not, it was God's. Most rejected what He offered in Jesus Christ. Some did not and through them the Gospel was preached to the world, at least to those who would listen.
     
  15. kyredneck

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    Well, I'm already in the kingdom of God right here, now. Heaven, or to be with the Lord wherever that is, is where I anticipate to be.

    Well, it WAS theirs, by default actually, then the vineyard was taken away from them and given to another. They were broken off from their own tree and others were grafted in.

    'That generation' was the 'flock of slaughter' prophesied in Zech 11, and Christ fed them riddles and dark sayings; they were 'the perverse and crooked generation' of the song of Moses Dt 32, 'not His children'. There was never any intent to grant them repentance, but only to a small remnant.

    Most did not, and I suspect that most that did, fell away before 'the [not second] coming of 70 A.D'.
     
    #15 kyredneck, Feb 28, 2014
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  16. OldRegular

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    Israel was selected as a vessel through which the Incarnation would take place. Once that happened and the Jews instigated the crucifixion of Jesus Christ their part in God's salvation of His elect was finished. They now have no special relationship with God in my opinion. The elect among those of Israel will be saved just as all the elect will be!
     
  17. kyredneck

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    You'll admit that, but you just can't make this connection:

    And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18:24
     
  18. go2church

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    From Dr. Bob Utley

    19:24 "a camel to go through the eye of a needle" There has been much discussion over this phrase. Is it literal or figurative? There was never a small gate in Jerusalem which camels had to kneel to enter! It was an oriental exaggeration, in which it would be impossible for rich people to be saved! But with God, all things are possible (Matt. 19:26). Jesus is addressing the situation of the rich, young ruler. He seemed to be blessed by God in an OT snese, but he was not right with God. Riches and possessions can be (and often are) a curse!

    From Faithlife Study Bible (Logos)

    19:24 through the eye of a needle Jesus employs this ridiculous impossibility to intrigue His hearers and capture their attention; the phrase does not refer a gate in Jerusalem or to a known passage way. Jesus’ point here is the same as v. 26—it is not impossible for a rich person to enter the kingdom, just difficult.

    At best it might be a reference to a narrow archway over a street, kind of looking like the top of a needle
     
  19. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Dr. Utley is wrong.
     
  20. preachinjesus

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    No, Dr Utley isn't wrong. Though I am not around my resources, most biblical archeologists are affirming what he wrote.

    There are a couple of ways to understand the passage, and of those presented above I am partial to the statement being hyperbolic with Jesus emphasizing that riches aren't what get one into heaven.

    One of friends, who is an Eastern Orthodox priest, has noted that the Aramaic here is particularly interesting since the word for camel and rope are nearly identical. He suggests that Jesus was making, an exaggerated, point that it is hard to thread the needle with a rope. Its still the same principle.

    Anyhoo, I don't know of any credible biblical archeologist who affirms a small gate in the walls of Jerusalem.
     

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