Ezekiel 36:17-28 unfulfilled

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by beameup, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. beameup

    beameup
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    17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings:
    their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed [menstruation] woman.

    18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

    19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries:
    according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

    20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them,
    These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

    21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel,
    but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
    and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    ......

    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
    and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

    [the land which your fathers possessed - see Deut 1:8, 1:35, 4:1, 6:10, 6:23, 8:1, 9:5, 10:11, 11:9, 11:21, 19:8, 28:11, etc.]

    MAP of 12 Tribes: http://www.imninalu.net/maps_file/12Tribes.jpg
     
  2. Old Union Brother

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    Yes it was in The denial of Christ, his trial, his being turned over to Pilate, and his cruicifixition, Sending of the holy ghost, etc......
     
  3. Greektim

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    Paul seemed to disagree.

    2 Cor. 1:20 "For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory." (ESV)

    The question is, how was this fulfilled and whether that fulfillment was the inauguration or consummation of fulfillment.

    As for an answer, I think Acts 15 shows the early apostles view on this kind of fulfillment in that the ingathering of the Gentiles as part of the people of God indicate that God's eschatological plan has begun in the church. That this "new spirit" was given at Pentecost in Acts 2 and continued to be given to Gentiles alike indicate that the New Covenant has been ratified and inaugurated. God's plan for his people the church or the redefined Israel has commenced w/ the death and resurrection of Jesus.

    That's how I see it anyways.
     
  4. Old Union Brother

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    Amen to that
     
  5. percho

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    I agree with you however I don't think you will agree with me. Throughout the OT God stated exactly what he was going to do. He choose a people and brought them out of Egypt (sin). It was going to be through the Christ who would come from these people and these people God was going to reconcile the world. IMHO. first the Christ, then the elect in Christ from these people, then these people and then the world. BTW GT you are correct about Acts 15 IMO. These people disobeyed God. Duh, don't we all? They split into two nations. One from whom the Christ would come, and they went into exile for seventy years and some returned from whom the Christ would come. Judah, Levi and Benjamin a fold of sheep, his own unto which he came. Yet he choose twelve and spoke in parables to the rest. In about 721 BC God speaking of these people he brought out of Egypt stated, these and these only of all the people of the earth did he know. Know as in a sexual, intimate relationship. Yet this fold of sheep God was about to scatter into all nations (Gentiles) and they would be considered Gentiles, Uncircumcision (the foreskins) castaways. Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    This is what God said in Deut. 32:26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
    That never in the history of man up until this very day has happened to the House of Judah, the Jews, but it did happen to the other fold of sheep the House of Israel. It is also evident from scripture that this happened because they did away with his laws, worshiped idols and did away with and or changed the sabbath the very sigh that identified them as God's sanctified people.

    Is it not these people that is Acts 15:14 God is taking out of the Gentiles as a people for his name? In the OT God said he would do this so the heathen (same word as nations and Gentiles BTW) would know that he is God the faithful one to his people.

    We see in Jer. 3:14 God begins this not by bring back the whole but a part, yet I believe all Israel will be saved. Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

    Is Zion in this context the church?

    It is in these people called out as a people for his name, that is the remnant, and in the Christ the deliverer the rest of mankind all Israel and the heathen will seek.

    Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
     
  6. beameup

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    Disagree with what?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Paul: Romans 11:26-29
    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer,
    and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the
    election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

    For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable [without repentance].
    (ie: unchangeable, as is God)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery - Romans 11:25a
     
    #6 beameup, Jan 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2012
  7. Iconoclast

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  8. Darrell C

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    As do I, GreekTim.

    God bless.
     
  9. DaChaser1

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    Would you agree with him that God 'redefined' isreal as actually being now the Church, "Spritual Isreal?"

    At least that is what I think he is saying!
     
  10. Darrell C

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    I did not take that meaning from what he said.

    Consider:


    The premise of the thread is that the passage quoted has not been fulfilled yet.

    I disagree with that in part, because the promises of God in that passage can be seen in the events surrounding salvation in Christ...for the Church.

    While it is true that for Israel these promises are yet to be fulfilled and will not be until the end of the Tribulation (though we can the beginnings within the Tribulation, meaning, the restoration of Israel will begin in her judgment), we cannot fail to make the connection between these promises and that which God wrought in the establishment of the Church.

    Consider:


    Ezekial 36


    22Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.



    The house of Israel was dispersed and in the process they fell into sin, compounding their sin even further.

    What God promises to do here we should be careful to recognize that He does so, not for their sake (and we can include their efforts or righteousness as a reason), but for His own glory, for His own name's sake.

    When we see the result of the New Covenant in the life of the Church, we should understand that we also are not saved due to our own efforts, or that we might be glorified among the nations, but that God is glorified.


    23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.


    We see fulfillment here of another promise of God:


    Genesis 12

    1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

    2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

    3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.



    This is a familiar theme concerning Messiah:



    Matthew 12:17-21

    King James Version (KJV)

    17That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

    18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    19He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

    20A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

    21And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.



    So when we look at this aspect of God's work...



    23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.


    ...we can immediately see that the promise of God is not doubleminded as GreekTim pointed out, but is yea.

    We see that the promise of God to Israel has a fulfillment in the Church, else, we would have to conclude that Israel would first have to be restored in order for Gentiles to be saved. And to experience the things promised here.

    We do see a future fulfillment of this passage in the life of Israel, however, when we look at exactly what God promises to do here, we can remember the Lord's conversation with Nicodemus and see why the Lord would have expected Nicodemus to understand His meaning.

    But more on that in a bit.

    Continued...
     
  11. Darrell C

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    I see this as a valid question: those that do see the New Covenant and the associated promises debate whether Pentecost signifies a change from National Israel to their replacement, the Church, or, as I view it, Pentecost is the establishment of the New Covenant in the lives of men, though Israel yet awaits a national restoration and partaking of the New Covenant.

    I do not promote replacement theology, and again agree with GreekTim concerning the promise of God. Though as I get to the bottom of this post I think I may have put my foot in my mouth...lol.



    I think Gentile inclusion in the promises of God are an evident truth in scripture. So far, the statement echoes my belief.



    Again, totally agree.


    And perhaps I misread this the first time, I can see how this might indicate replacement theology.

    I will say that I am a firm believer that while there is a distinction between the Church and National Israel, who will, I believe, be restored and enjoy the promised rest of God both in salvation as well as the Millennial Kingdom, I am also a firm believer that in the eternal state, there will not be Jew and Gentile, Church and Israel...but one people of God.

    The Church can be viewed spiritually as the Israel of God, so to speak, but temporally speaking Israel still has promises of God to be fulfilled.

    So, now, DaChaser1, I see better your question.


    But I would need for GreekTim to be more clear as to how he is looking at this, whether he feels the Church has replaced Israel, or if he is looking at this in the sense of the Church being children of Abraham spiritually.

    God bless.
     

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