Ezekiel 38

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jedi Knight, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
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    Has Ezekiel 38 been fulfilled or is this the future of Israel? If it was fulfilled please show where in scripture you believe it was.
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-battle-of-gog-and-magog-prophetic-deja-vu/


    The battle in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is clearly an ancient one or at least one fought with ancient weapons. All the soldiers are riding horses (38:4, 15; 39:20). These horse soldiers are “wielding swords” (38:4), carrying “bows and arrows, war clubs and spears” (39:3, 9). The weapons are made of wood (39:10), and it is these abandoned weapons that serve as fuel for “seven years” (39:9).

    http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-magog-invasion/

    What Lindsey writes next is very important: “Two thousand, five hundred years ago, a Hebrew captive living in Babylon outlined in detail the scenario that has continued to unfold and take shape in precise detail for most of the past generation.” I want you to notice the phrase “in precise detail.” I challenge anyone who says he interprets Ezekiel 38 and 39 literally, as most prophecy writers say they do, to read these two chapters and find any mention of Russia,[2] Moscow, Siberia or the Republic of Georgia. Read the chapters through a second time and see if you can find tanks, “missile receptor batteries,” nuclear weapons, and jet planes.
    So then, do these prophecy “experts” really interpret the Bible literally? When it comes to Ezekiel 38 and 39, the simple answer is no.


    It’s obvious that Ezekiel is describing an ancient battle fought with ancient weapons against an ancient foe. The prophecy has been fulfilled. The only event in history that can be its fulfillment is the events of Esther where God’s people are rescued from Haman who “sought to destroy all the Jews, the people of Mordecai, who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus . . . to destroy, to kill, and to annihilate all the Jews, both young and old, women and children, in one day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to seize their possessions as plunder” (Esther 3:6, 13; cp. Ps. 83:4) and failed (9:1).

    He makes his case in this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/091581594X/?tag=baptis04-20
     
  3. Jedi Knight

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    Thanks Grasshopper :type: I've have watched Hal Lindsey a long time but have raised questions on some of his viewpoints if they are accurate.
     
    #3 Jedi Knight, Jun 15, 2009
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  4. Amy.G

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    Jedi, I watched a series on John Ankerberg's website last night about Ez. 38 entitled "Revelation unfolding". It was very interesting.

    The presentation is on the right side of the main page.

    LINK
     
  5. Jedi Knight

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    I like John Ankerberg too....will check it out,thanks Amy G :wavey:
     
  6. Amy.G

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    You are welcome. You can call me just plain ol' Amy. :)
     
  7. Jedi Knight

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    John's videos are very new I see...Thanks Amy.:smilewinkgrin:
     
    #7 Jedi Knight, Jun 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2009
  8. Me4Him

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    Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

    De 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

    The "Latter or Last days" refers to the time period "After" Jesus came.

    Heb 1:1 God, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

    Modern Tanks are made from a "laminated wood" that is stronger than steel, the process for making this armour is still a "secret".

    The "Seven Kingdoms" must be fulfilled first,Nebuchadnezzar dream began as the "Third Kingdom" of the seven.

    Da 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.

    Da 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

    33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

    34 Thou sawest till that a stone (Jesus) was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.


    Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, (Rome) and the other is not yet come; (revived Rome) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
     
  9. gb93433

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    When he spoke of an exact date when Jesus would return that is the day I knew he was a false teacher.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    I call.
    Prove it or consider yourself reproved.

    BTW, statements such as the following are NOT date picking:

    1. "I think there is a great chance that Jesus will come back prior to the first day of the 21st Century.

    (A specific date is to say "Jesus will return on Thursday, 1 Jan 2000).

    [BTW, 1 Jan 2001 is the 'first day of the 21st Century. The 21st century means dates from 1 Jan 2001 until 31 Dec 2100.]

    2. The Second Coming of Jesus in Power and Glory will be within a month or two of Seven Years after the Second Coming of Jesus to Get the Church (AKA: 'Rapture').

    Sorry, the scripture give a time shedule, what is not known is the date of the Rapture phase of the Second Coming, not the 'Smashing Demons' part of the Second Coming. Given the date of the Rapture/Second Coming, the timing of events is known. Nobody, however will know the date of the Rapture/Second Coming UNTIL that date (or later).

    I've seen people damned for 'date setting' who do either or both of these (including Hal Lindsay).
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    I'm going with the majority of the Conservative Jewish Rabbis on this:

    The prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39
    are two future prophecies
    yet to be fulfilled.

     
  12. Ed Edwards

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    amen, Brother Me4Him -- You are so EXACTLY RIGHT ON!
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    In his sophomoric attempt to make this case did he even bother to read the whole of ch38?


     
  14. convicted1

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    RE: Ezekiel 38?

    I know this wasn't directed to me, but oh well.......


    Hi "Plain Ol'" Amy!!:laugh::thumbs::thumbs:

    Willis
     
  15. Me4Him

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    Re 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    Re 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

    Re 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

    With these earthquakes occurring, I don't think I need to explain what is going to happen to "OIL PRODUCTION",

    Even the "Reserves" the USA has stored in abondon salt mines.

    Gas/Diesel/Jet fuel, are all going to be in short supply,

    as well as any "BUILDING" left standing able to produce any modern weapons, guns/ammo etc. :eek:

    Of course man can still ride a horse make a bow/arrow. :laugh:
     
  16. Amy.G

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    :laugh: Hi convicted! :wavey:

    It's good to see you again. I always enjoy your posts. You have a sweet spirit.
     
  17. Grasshopper

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    Yea, I think he probably read that part since he wrote a book on it. So I guess future armies will be using swords again? Gotta love the literalists.
     
  18. Grasshopper

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    No, it says Jesus spoke to them IN the Last Days.

    Heb 1:2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;



    So all of the sudden "literalism" goes out the window because I don't see "tanks" in Eze. 38.

    Daniel spoke of 4 Kingdoms not seven. Rome was the fourth:


    Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom is strong as iron, because that iron is breaking small, and making feeble, all things , even as iron that is breaking all these, it beateth small and breaketh.


    1. Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
    2. Augustus (31BC- AD 14)
    3. Tiberius (AD 14-37
    4. Gaius a.k.a. Caligula (AD 37-41)
    5. Claudius (AD 41-54)
    6. Nero (AD 54-68)
    7. Galba (AD 68-69)
    8. Otho (AD 69)
    9. Vitellius (AD 69)
    10. Vespasian (AD 69-79)
    11. Titus (AD 79-81)
    12. Domitian (AD 81-96)

    With the solution that I (and most other conservative preterists) propose, that one starts with Julius Caesar, the five fallen are Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius, the one reigning is Nero (AD 54-68). This fits perfectly the preterist contention that the book of Revelation was written near the end of Nero’s reign (around AD 65) right before the Jewish war of AD 66-70. The latest one can legitimately make the “five have fallen one is” of Revelation 17:10 would be to start the count of the emperors with Augustus instead of Julius. If one then doesn’t count the short lived emperors (Galba, Otho and Vitellius) this would make the five that had fallen, Augustus, Tiberius, Gaius, Claudius, Nero, the one reigning would be Vespasian (69-79). Notice that even using this late date method of counting, one comes up with Revelation being written in the decade of the AD 70’s. This is approximately two decades short of the proposed time of AD 95 that the late date advocates maintain.

    http://planetpreterist.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=2836
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    First libbies refuse to acknowledge what a literal interpretation of scripture is. Maybe the two of you should study on that before making such silly comments and even going so far as to write a book. A major reason why the comment qualifies as sophomoric. Second the entire idea is refuted by what I posted.
     
  20. Pilgrimer

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    Hello Grasshopper, it’s very nice to meet you.

    I believe Chapters 38 and 39 of Ezekiel spoke of the culmination of the final battle in Israel in the last days of the Old Testament. It was a literal battle in which all the details of Ezekiel 38 and 39 were fulfilled, and quite literally, so I don’t think that is where the premillennialists err . . . it is the players who the premillennialists misinterpret.

    Gog was an Israelite, of the tribe of Levi, the son of Joel who was the son of Samuel (see 1 Chronicles 5:4). You remember the history of Joel. The godly Samuel had two sons, Joel and Abiah, whom he appointed to be judges over Israel. But these two sons became totally corrupted by greed. They took bribes and completely perverted judgment. When the elders of Israel grew angry over their godless rule they went to Samuel and demanded that he appoint them a king to reign over them as the other nations had. You can read about all this in 1 Samuel 8. (Of course all this was ordained by God to be a type and a figure, as everything God did in times past had meaning for the future)

    So, from a strictly Biblical perspective, if “Gog” is representative of anyone in Ezekiel 38 and 39, it is representative of those sons of Levi to whom God had intrusted the care and administration of holy things (see Numbers 3:5-13) who turned from God to serve mammon and perverted justice and judgment. As students of the New Testament, that should certainly ring a bell!

    Hamon Gog, mentioned in Ezekiel 39:11-16, is the name of place where “Gog” was buried. It is said to be a “valley” (v 11) and also a “city” (v16). This place is identified elsewhere in Scripture as the Valley of Hinnom, which runs along the southwest side of Jerusalem, and is called in the Greek Gehenna, translated as “hell” or a place of punishment. Very ancient prophecy had foretold that this would be the place where God would punish those Jews who broke covenant with him and that in the last days there would be a judgment in which so many would be slain that there would not be room enough to bury them all, but their dead bodies would be thrown out into the valley of Hinnom (where they had anciently committed the grossest atrocity of all of burning their children alive in fire as an offering to Baal in a place called “Tophet” which literally means “beating” referring to the drums the priests would beat to drown out the screams of the children as they were burned alive, for which sin God said he would pile their dead bodies in that place to be food for the beasts of the earth and fowls of the air, etc., etc., etc.) This prophecy goes back to the Law and finishes up in the Revelation all of which speaks of this war and punishment (Revelation 19:17-18, compare to Deuteronomy 28:26, Jeremiah 7:29-34 and Jeremiah 19, just read the whole chapter for the context).

    Magog was the grandson of Noah, son of Japheth, and one of the various heads of the gentiles listed in Genesis 10:1-5

    Israel, in this prophecy, is not speaking of Old Covenant Israel, but of New Covenant Israel, which is the Jewish Church.

    The assault by Gog (representing the apostate, corrupt priesthood) against Israel (the New Covenant Jews) joined with Magog (the Gentiles) is a description of the assault on the people of God by the enemies of God that occurred in the last days of the Old Covenant, as the New Covenant Jews being persecuted understood it and praised God for it saying: “Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word. By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together: and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.” Acts 4:23-31

    Obviously these early Jewish converts to Christ believed the persecution they were being subjected to was a cosmic battle between God and the forces of evil that were coming against Christ, which was the apostate Jewish religious authorities, as well as the gentiles. But that was just the beginning of the fulfillment of this struggle, which did not end until the Old Covenant Israel was nothing but a smoking, desolate land.

    And New Covenant Israel triumphed.

    In Christ,
    Pilgrimer
     

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