Faith is not a work

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by romanbear, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. romanbear

    romanbear
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi everyone; [​IMG]

    Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

    Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

    Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

    Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

    Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

    Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    If faith is considered a work then how is it that it is dead without works?
    Romanbear
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    James is talking about faith as in believing certain facts as his reference to devils indicates. The faith we are talking about in this forum is saving faith in trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ which the devils that James references do not do.

    Nice try though. [​IMG]
     
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Ken,
    Then you are redefining faith.

    There are no differences in faith, but there are different conditions and manners in which faith is manifest. No, FAITH is not a work!

    The definition of work is "the expenditure of energy to accomplish a specific result". A work for example could be the attendence of a worship service. Physical manifestation of Worship, such as, the many forms of "priestly duties" is a work.

    The definition of faith:
     
  4. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, Yelsew, in your understanding there is no difference between the faith of devils and your faith.
     
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Absolutely, faith is faith! The difference is the object of the faith!
     
  6. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no difference as you both believe in God.
     
  7. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolutely, faith is faith! The difference is the object of the faith! </font>[/QUOTE]Are you saying that these demons are saved?

     
  8. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolutely, faith is faith! The difference is the object of the faith! </font>[/QUOTE]This difference is that the demons and the devil know the fact of who the Son of God was and is in eternity, this is not saving faith. This is why a mere intellectual knowledge of Christ is not enough to cut the grade and to save any soul, it must be by the power of the Holy Spirit working in the regeneration of the will of man. Only in this way are any saved, a mere decision to believe because of some emotional plea is as helpless and hopeless as the man who is lost. But this is a favorite of the devil to publish among men and is favorably received.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    is this taken from Jacobus Armenius' theological dictionary? These are the things that you espouse when first you practice the doctrines of free-will and Armenianism.

    God Bless
    Bro.Dallas
     
  10. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    There is no difference as you both believe in God. </font>[/QUOTE]Think about your answer Ken
     
  11. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no question the devil believes and trembles.
     
  12. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Absolutely, faith is faith! The difference is the object of the faith! </font>[/QUOTE]Are you saying that these demons are saved?

    </font>[/QUOTE]No I am not saying the demons are saved. Salvation is not for demons, but only for humans. If you can show me any scripture that indicates demons can be saved, we might start a topic to discuss it. Otherwise, any argument is equating the belief of man to the belief of demons is pure foolishness.
     
  13. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Frogman
    If the demons and the devil "know" the fact of who Jesus is, there is no faith. Knowledge requires NO FAITH at all! So there can be no saving faith, because they already know and continue in their rebellion. There is no salvation for them!
    You are simply misinformed, or you simply refuse to believe the truth.
     
  14. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    yet then it remains that the devil and the demons may one day be in heaven, after all they are believers in the very sense the world embraces this concept.

    Brother Dallas
     
  15. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have and this is what I have come up with. You are trying to defend romanbear's case that he made using a passage in James that talks about believing and works. You agree with him that this proves believing is not a work. I showed that James talks about believing by people and by devils. James did not differentiate between the two as for as their believing is concerned. Therefore, romanbear's and your attempt to use this passage to defend the extreme Arminian theory that believing is not a work fails in attempting to use this passage to make your case.

    Just admit defeat and move on. [​IMG]
     
  16. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    I have and this is what I have come up with. You are trying to defend romanbear's case that he made using a passage in James that talks about believing and works. You agree with him that this proves believing is not a work. I showed that James talks about believing by people and by devils. James did not differentiate between the two as for as their believing is concerned. Therefore, romanbear's and your attempt to use this passage to defend the extreme Arminian theory that believing is not a work fails in attempting to use this passage to make your case.

    Just admit defeat and move on. [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]But you have not refuted my statements! You are merely repeating your own misinformed belief system.
     
  17. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Ken,
    There is a distinct difference in belief that something or someone exists, even having knowledge of that existence, and believing that that something or someone loves you and desires to save your from your impending doom.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew,

    Look at the verses in James:

    Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


    James made no distinction here between what you or I believe and what the devils believe. THey very well know what Jesus has gained for His people. What the devils lack are any works as evidence that they are saved by God's amazing, sovereign grace.
     
  19. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    You hold in incorrect understanding of the scripture.

    "Thou believest that there is one God" is saying what I said, "There is a distinct difference in belief that something or someone exists, even having knowledge of that existence,..." All of God's creation "believeth that there is one God". The whole of the Spirit realm KNOWS there is but one God. The devil and his demons, Know there is but One God. Knowing there is but one God, and believing in and submitting to that One God is not the same thing. The devil and the demons have set themselves against God and therefore cannot by any means be redeemed.

    You also overlook this one fact,
    Evil spirits, or unregenerated spirits do not confess that Jesus is the Christ. Even the newest of believers confesses that Jesus is the Christ!
     
  20. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Romanbear was pointing out the fact that scripture puts faith up against works as two different aspects, just as Paul does in Romans 3:27-31.

    Faith is not considered a work, yet it is obviously seen an aspect that God hold's us responsible for.

    He continually rebukes men for their lack of faith. If Calvinism is right, he shouldn't be rebuking them he sould be rebuking himself for not giving them faith. It's nonsence.

    It would be like a teacher giving her students an F for not completing an assignment she hasn't even assigned to them. It just doesn't make sense.
     

Share This Page

Loading...