Falwell: Jews can get to Heaven without Christ

I posted some quotes from Hagee over on the Hagee thread. Yup....he said it. </font>[/QUOTE]You did no such thing. You quoted quotes of those who quoted John Hagee, nothing different than the source given for the false information in this OP. Heresay = GOSSIP. Tread lightly when you say "yup...he said it". </font>[/QUOTE]First of all webdog, tone down your tone of intimidation. Secondly, I watch Hagee every chance I get now, and his theology is a bit lopsided when it comes to the Jewish people. He now has rabbi Daniel Lappin on his show endorsing his new book about Jerusalem in prophecy. That is where I watched him make some of his latest statements.I don't care if Falwell makes a statement for Hagee that he is not into dual covenant. I want to see one from Hagee. </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not trying to be intimidating. I watched that same show, and watch his daily show, and no statement refers to dual covenant theology or anything "lopsided" when it comes to jews. You brought up this same slanderous garbage on the other christian forum.

I want to see one FROM YOU backing what you claim about Hagee. If you haven't even seen anything from Hagee relating to dual covenant theology, what business do you have slandering him the way you do and saying "yup...he said it"?

 

How about this one. Hagee is a charismatic heretic who consorts with benny hinn and the like.

 

How's it feel to want Webdoggie. Tone it down a notch and we will talk then.

 

Humblesmith,

That was Bailey Smith, not Jerry Falwell.

 

Dual covenant theology is a direct denial of Romans 1: 16---it is heresy. And this comes from a full blown dispensationalist.

Bro Tony

 

Falwell categorically denied this articles authenticity this afternoon. As 'far out' as he is, this was a blatant lie about him.

 

Just received an e-mail from Dr. Falwell, here is part of it.

By Jerry Falwell

March 1, 2006



Earlier today, reports began circulating across the globe that I have recently stated that Jews can go to heaven without being converted to Jesus Christ. This is categorically untrue.



These false reports originated from a March 1 Jerusalem Post front page column which said: “An evangelical pastor and an Orthodox rabbi, both from Texas, have apparently persuaded leading Baptist preacher Jerry Falwell that Jews can get to heaven without being converted to Christianity. Televangelist John Hagee and Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, whose Cornerstone Church and Rodfei Sholom congregations are based in San Antonio, told The Jerusalem Post that Falwell had adopted Hagee's innovative belief in what Christians refer to as ‘dual covenant’ theology. This creed, which runs counter to mainstream evangelism, maintains that the Jewish people have a special relationship to God through the revelation at Sinai and therefore do not need ‘to go through Christ or the Cross’ to get to heaven.”



While I am a strong supporter of the State of Israel and dearly love the Jewish people and believe them to be the chosen people of God, I continue to stand on the foundational biblical principle that all people — Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Jews, Muslims, etc. — must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven.



Dr. Hagee called me today and said he never made these statements to the Jerusalem Post or to anyone else. He assured me that he would immediately contact the Jerusalem Post and request a correction. Before today, I had never heard of Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg or had any communications with him. I therefore am at a total loss as to why he would make such statements about me to the Post, if in fact he did.



ONE WAY TO HEAVEN



In this age of political correctness and diversity, the traditional evangelical belief that salvation is available only through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is often portrayed as closed-minded and bigoted. But if one is to believe in Jesus Christ, he must believe in His words: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father but by Me” (John 14:6). I simply cannot alter my belief that Jesus is The Way to heaven, as He taught.



Again, I do not follow this teaching of “dual covenant” theology and I believe it runs counter to the Gospel.



I have been on record all 54 years of my ministry as being opposed to “dual covenant” theology. In fact, Dr. John Hagee has indicated to me, as recently as today, that he likewise does not accept “dual covenant” theology.

 

Thank you Shiloh. The talking heads on this board never cease to amaze me. They can post whatever they want about whomever they want at anytime they want, while they hide behind cyberspace "he said she said" slander and innuendo. I hope this is a lesson learned for all of us. Sometimes the mouth and the emotions and the proverbial axe to grind, outrun people's better judgement. The silence from the OP'er and others is deafening.

 

Thank you Shiloh for the clarification. This should remind us that just because someone says it-- does not make it true.

Bro Tony

 

How's it feel to want Webdoggie. Tone it down a notch and we will talk then. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess this means "I don't have one, I just like to slander others." There's nothing to "tone down", so don't use that as an excuse to not post direct quotes from Haggee or Falwell. If you are not being truthful, just say that and all is well.
BTW, my screen name is webdog. Refer to me as such.

 

I guess I'm a heretic too...there is an unsaved RC couple in my small group, and I have new age brother and sister in-laws I "consort" with. Think Jesus ever "consorted" with the likes of Benny Hinn?

 

Hagee does hold and teach some false doctrines. Anyone who associates with a clearly discernable false teacher like Hinn must be viewed with skepticism.

No. I don't think that Jesus ever "consorted" with frauds masquerading as preachers of the gospel. I think He would have exposed and condemned them.

 

By false doctrine, I'm assuming you are referring to "non calvinism", which by the way I see as correct doctrine, and calvinism false.

Jesus never "consorted" with frauds? What was Nicodemus? Did he "condemn" him? This is the problem with many Christians. The "holier than thou" attitude toward others who either are not saved, or don't believe the same exact things as you do. Jesus was the "friend of sinners". Who are we to put ourselves above Jesus?!?

 

webdog, Hinn's problems have nothing to do with calvinism!! This has nothing to do with "holier than thou" either. It has to do with obeying Jesus' and Paul's warnings about false teachers and false teachings throughout the NT!

Timothy tells us to hold to sound doctrine; 2 Peter and Jude warns of severe penalties for false teachers. Hinn has taught that God is 9 persons (not 3), he is also Word Faith (which has all kinds of unbiblical teachings), that Adam could fly, he has "thrown" the Holy Spirit out into the audience as though the HS is a magical power, and has said that Jesus took on "Satan's nature" on the cross. This is pure, unadulterated false teaching and any believer should reject this. And these are just some of Hinn's "teachings."
http://www.discernment.org/faithhealers/benny.htm

BTW, I am not a Calvinist.

 

You are making counterpoints to points I never made. This has nothing to do with either of scottj's comments nor mine. Re-read both posts.

 

I was responding to Scott J' point about the false teachings of Hinn.

Hagee promotes some of the Word Faith doctrines that Hinn does, such as postive confession, prosperity teaching, and this:

The first statement by Hagee is from the Houston Chronicle, April 30, 1988. See article for sources of other quotes.

 

How's it feel to want Webdoggie. Tone it down a notch and we will talk then. </font>[/QUOTE]I guess this means "I don't have one, I just like to slander others." There's nothing to "tone down", so don't use that as an excuse to not post direct quotes from Haggee or Falwell. If you are not being truthful, just say that and all is well.
BTW, my screen name is webdog. Refer to me as such. </font>[/QUOTE]Okay webdog,

since it appears that you are a fan of John Hagee, let's get down to some facts. I hope you have a basic understanding of modern Judaism, because it may help you in discerning some of the things that I will present. Do you remember when John Hagee was selling a tallit (Jewish prayer shawl)on his show?

question #1:

Is it good for a non-Jewish Christian to wear a prayer shawl?

answer:

No it is not. The reason being, is that the prayer shawl has fringes (tzit tzit) tied in knots on the ends of the shawl. These knots are tied in a pattern to represent the 613 mitzvot (commandments)These 613 are a rabbinic interpretation of the ten commandments. Do you know that when someone of Jewish heritage who was practicing dies, they can be buried with their prayer shawl... BUT,
not before the fringes are cut off. Why you might ask? To signify that they are no longer under the law.Are Christians under the law webdog?

The second reason that it is not a good idea, is because a non-Jew wearing a tallit could be an offence to the Jewish people.The church is told to provoke the Jews to jealousy...not just to provoke them.

John Hagee was promoting it as "wear a tallit like Jesus wore". There is a problem with that promotion.This is because the 613 is defined by the talmud, which was not assembled in its current form until centuries after Christ. Jesus may have worn a shawl in the temple to cover His head, but it didn't have the 613 tied on the tzit tzit, because that interpretation was not even written yet.It most likely was tied in a pattern to remind the children of Israel of the ten commandments given to Moses, as detailed in Numbers.

In other words....does Mr Hagee even really know what he is teaching, or is he just enamored with Judaism this much?

 

While this has nothing to do with the OP, or your lack of providing quotes from Hagee stating he believes in DCT, it is not left to you to decide what is "good" in each Christian's eye. If a prayer shawl is worn to show that the "Law" saves, it is wrong. If it is worn as a reminder to pray, I have no problem with that.

Ceremonial? No. Moral? Yes. Civil? Yes.

Why...because boanerges says it's not "good"?

 

While this has nothing to do with the OP, or your lack of providing quotes from Hagee stating he believes in DCT, it is not left to you to decide what is "good" in each Christian's eye. If a prayer shawl is worn to show that the "Law" saves, it is wrong. If it is worn as a reminder to pray, I have no problem with that.

Ceremonial? No. Moral? Yes. Civil? Yes.

Why...because boanerges says it's not "good"? </font>[/QUOTE]Ok webdog. I understand clearly now why you like Mr Hagee. Mixing a little law and grace. I didn't provide any more quotes, because Ms Marcia was nice enough to do so. I guess hers aren't acceptable either. So if you wear a shawl webdog, will you cut the fringes off also? Since it is a Jewish custom to do so once someone is no longer under the law (dead). Problem is, Mr Hagee was selling them to Christians with the tzit tzit on them. I think that the church needs to learn a little bit more about Judaism, before they start adopting the things of Judaism. Modern Judaism and Christianity are two separate and distinct religions.Ask any Jew, and they will be happy to tell you.

 

Are we witnessing those who are so easily tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine?

As little confidence I have in any tv personality, I hesitate to think Falwell believing Jews stay in Heaven beyond the Blood of Christ.

Truly everyone IS going to Heaven! BUT! only those who are washed in the Blood of Christ will stay there, all others will have their time before the Great White Throne and be cast bound, hand and foot into the Lake of Fire.

Even the O.T. saints had to receive Christ from Paradise to enter into Heaven as the First Fruits of the Resurrection.