This post is a response to one of Lou Martuneac's replies in the Lordship Salvation thread. However since this has nothing to do with Lordship Salvation, and since that thread is on its 12th page, I thought it best to start a new thread for this. ==I am always amazed when non-Calvinists charge Calvinists with fatalism. Why? Because it either represents a massive misunderstanding of Calvinism or it reflects a deep distrust of God on the part of the non-Calvinist who makes this charge. Calvinists believe that God has elected certain individuals to salvation based on His love, His grace, His will, and His plan (Eph 1:3-14). The only way the Calvinistic position can be correctly labeled as fatalism is if God's plan (etc) is fatalistic. Since I believe in a Holy, loving, and gracious God, I can't believe His plan could ever be fatalistic. Therefore I reject the accusation that Calvinism is fatalism. ==That is untrue. Calvinism is based on the teachings of Scripture that mortal, sinful man cannot take any credit for his salvation. Salvation is of the Lord and not of man. ==No, it does not. Your whole post/reply on irresistible grace misunderstands and thus misses the whole point. Of course the non-elect resist God's grace. Irresistible grace teaches, as Jesus did, that those the Father gives to Jesus WILL come to Jesus (Jn 6:37, 10:27). You can't "answer" irresistible grace until you figure out that it refers only to the elect and not to the non-elect. ==Nobody who believes in irresistible grace believes that the elect "must" come to Christ the first time they hear the Gospel. Therefore the above argument is a strawman that reflects a serious misunderstanding of the Calvinisitic position. The Scriptures teach that the elect "WILL" come to Christ. It never states, or implies, that they "must" come the first time they hear the Gospel. Passages like Genesis 6:3, Prov 1:24-26, 29:1, Jn 5:40 etc, do not deal with the elect who "WILL" come to Christ. The very fact that Lou Martuneac uses these verses, while trying to address the doctrine of irresistible grace, shows that he has a misunderstanding of the doctrine. Of course the non-elect resist the grace of God. Nobody denies that. The doctrine of irresistible grace deals with the elect and the fact that they will come to Christ.