Favorite Verses of the Lost

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    When dealing with the lost, in any circumstance, whether just in an apologetic sense, and/or in witnessing the Gospel, what do you find is the favorite verse of said lost? And what do you do about it or say to them?

    To me, it has unequivocally been Matthew 7:1..."Judge not..."

    Also, for more instances you may have come across, some of the lost love to quote OT references concerning God and His dealings, how do you deal with this, apologetically?

    Anyone who has experienced this and has further thoughts to share, it would be much appreciated.

    :jesus: :thumbs:
     
  2. annsni

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    Without a question, that is absolutely one of their favorite verses. The other one would be "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "God is love". Apparently, those are the 14 words that make up the Bible. :tongue3:
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    Explain that Mt 7 is about unrighteous judgement.....
    we are commanded to judge righteous judgement...in jn7
    When they go to the OT. they are really trying to avoid the question of sin and death. They try to say that the Ot God was mean,but now there is a God of love. God is always God, He does not change...he is Holy in all he does.
    Jesus is the true passover 1cor5:7
    the true tabernacle Heb8/9
    the new exodus Mt2:15 jn6/7
    Stick with we are all guilty before a thrice Holy God....and only the blood of Jesus can save sinners.
     
  4. annsni

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    Yep - I always just show them the WHOLE "judge not" passage and show them in particular verse 5. Then I show them Matthew 18 - Jesus' own words!! Finally, I show them 1 Corinthians 5.


    I also show them that the commandments were given to the Israelites and if they are an Israelite, they should listen to the law. However, Romans 8 tells us that we are no longer under the law but under grace. :)
     
  5. preacher4truth

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    Iconoclast,

    Good points. I have used the correct contextual explanations for judgment, but it remains a fact they use the verses, typically, to get the heat off of themselves, and to, in my personal belief, to disarm us.

    Now of course we know it is God who they are ultimately trying to disarm. We always ask and want God to be the one convicting them. I pray that the result would be like the sower and seed, in that we ask God to protect that Word we have sown, that is in their hearts, that the Wicked one will be made incapable of taking it from them.

    Also, could you explain more on "thrice Holy God" and what you mean by that and how you word or explain that, and why you insert that in your wording with them?

    Thanks for your input.

    Ann, also thank you for the distinguishing between OT and NT theology and application. How has this helped anyone you have used this on?

    Thanks again to you both.
     
  6. annsni

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    It's disarmed a huge argument they have and at first, it's not well taken: "So you pick and choose what you want to believe from the Bible, right??" I further show them the different parts of the Bible as far as narrative, directive, etc. and show that I can be telling my children about my childhood and the rules I had as a child - but that those rules are no longer in effect for me because I am now an adult and they understand that. It seems to help them understand. Basically at the end of the conversation, they either ignore what I'm saying and go back to "Well, I hope you stone your child when they are naughty" or else they move onto another argument. But most of the time I don't expect to "win" in this sort of debate because I'm really arguing with Satan. However, there HAVE been a few who's eyes have been opened and they have later been saved. :)
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    The arguments of the lost seemingly are all the same. Pointing the finger at God and His law, or at things they disagree with, and/or their disagreement with issues due to being culturally affected, whether by political correctness or other means. The infamous "stoning and OT war" excuses are really becoming prevalent of late, at least in what I have read and seen. Do you know any good apologetic writings on addressing this argument?

    Also, Paul Tillich is well known for his Ultimate Concern theory. Basically, according to his theory, no one makes an important life changing move until the move to the new thing becomes one of "Ultimate Concern" to the individual. I can see his point definitely. I think the believers at Pentecost who heard the message were at that point, and wanted to know what they had to do to in order to be saved. Do you feel this is the case for those who come into the Kingdom by Christ, and/or that those who argue as we have discussed need to be brought into this, Ultimate Concern, over their own lost condition?

    I believe the Holy Spirit brings people to this place. He brought me to this before believing the Gospel, and receiving and believing in His sacrifice for my sins.

    :jesus:
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    A verse that is helpful to understand and use is 2 tim2:24-26
    [QUOTE24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

    25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    ][/QUOTE]

    When they oppose you,they actually oppose Christ in you,by His word and Spirit ...so they oppose themselves.

    All three persons of the Godhead are Holy and everything they do is Holy .
    The Father is Holy in planning redemption, sending the Son,and Spirit,,,,and the prophets 2 chr 36;
    and again in mt21
    The Son humbles himself to make atonement for those given to Him by the Father;
    so all judgement is given to the Son.
    Jn17 is the blueprint of the covenant death Jesus accomplished.When men despise it like those in 2chr. or mt 21,they are in rebellion against all three persons of the Holy trinity/
    The Spirit is given by the Father and The Son.....
    [QUOTENevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    ][/QUOTE]

    So when the warnings are given....just like in the day of Noah...those not in the place of safety..[the ark].....or [In Christ] will perish under the thrice Holy wrath of the three persons they despise.
    ps...we got off to a rough start on the other thread. I think it was a mis-understanding. It is better when we see each other on the same side..
    We have enough enemies on the outside,we should edify each other in here.:wavey:
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Nov 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2010
  9. Salty

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    On the other hand, several years ago, I was door knocking and came upon a Catholic. She told me her priest told her not to talk to Protestants about religion. I told her she was in luck. I was not a Protestant, but a Baptist. She never came to our church, but at lest I left a track.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    When they oppose you,they actually oppose Christ in you,by His word and Spirit ...so they oppose themselves.


    All three persons of the Godhead are Holy and everything they do is Holy .


    The Father is Holy in planning redemption, sending the Son,and Spirit,,,,and the prophets 2 chr 36;

    and again in mt21


    The Son humbles himself to make atonement for those given to Him by the Father;
    so all judgement is given to the Son.

    Jn17 is the blueprint of the covenant death Jesus accomplished.When men despise it like those in 2chr. or mt 21,they are in rebellion against all three persons of the Holy trinity/
    The Spirit is given by the Father and The Son.....
    [QUOTENevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    ][/QUOTE]

    So when the warnings are given....just like in the day of Noah...those not in the place of safety..[the ark].....or [In Christ] will perish under the thrice Holy wrath of the three persons they despise.




    ps...we got off to a rough start on the other thread. I think it was a mis-understanding. It is better when we see each other on the same side..

    We have enough enemies on the outside,we should edify each other in here.:wavey:[/QUOTE]

    Iconoclast,

    Thanks for your Scriptural response. Reading all of that is a great refresher course. I enjoyed it.

    As to the rough start, I think we are all good. We're on the same side, as you say, and there is no problem here and I appreciate and enjoy the good dialogue.

    Have you read anything on Paul Tillichs theory?

    Also, I believe you are correct on the fact about judgment coming on those who do not respond, however, to them, not receiving an immediate perceived and felt judgment is a further excuse to them to continue in their old ways, although the wrath of God does still abide upon them.

    Also, what about God leading to witness, and have you ever been to where you knew God led you to a certain person, to witness to them, only to have them react this way?

    I want to ask, are you reformed in your theology? Having been in IFB churches all of my life, and unfortunately along with that comes a stigma of anti-intellectualism, rightfully so, I had never been exposed to this theology, but after reading the works of those, have found that their view of God is on a much higher plain than what I had ever experienced.

    There was always something amiss there, to me, in these IFB churches, something about the view of God being held by them, a too simplistic view, a view that since the preacher said it, don't you dare question that. A controlled atmosphere. As a disclaimer, I know that not all of the IFB churches are of this temperment.

    I've really enjoyed being free from that, and I get the "liberal" label now, but hey, I got it when I was there too, because I didn't support the legalistic issues they supported, although they enjoyed very much my preaching, that never centered on their issues, but on Biblical exposition at fellowships.

    :tonofbricks:

    Thanks for your input Iconoclast, and your desire for unity between us.

    :thumbs:
     
  11. Iconoclast

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    no, not familiar with his writings.

    Yes. I believe God will and does use christians who are in the word and prayer often to accomplish his purpose. We should always pray for God to use us to win lost souls by a right use of the word. I am a CDL truck driver who goes to the main 48 states ,so I am used to speaking to strangers in public.
    I pray that God will provide persons who I" can reach with bible truth,leaving the results to God. There have been some rather startling opportunities that I
    know only God could have had happen as they did.

    Yes. I am what they call a Reformed Baptist by choice, God's choice.
    As an ex-catholic
    I used to curse at christians and wanted nothing to do with the bible.
    I started to read the bible to make fun of it. I was savingly drawn to Jesus about 4 months later being so convicted of my sinfulness and ignorant pride that I thought God would take my life from me. He had mercy on me,and did not cut me off,but had other plans for me.
    Having started out not knowing the old testament from the new.....I did not even know what the chapter and verse numbers are....I kept reading the scripture. Eventually I heard some good teaching on radio,and tapes....but what really helped was reading some Spurgeon, the puritans,some systematic theologies, matthew henry,john owen....they were the only ones who would speak about the predestination that I saw everywhere in the scripture.

    now I listen to sermonaudio sermons all the time.The church 's I
    have been in use this as a guide for what we believe the bible teaches,although I have some minor disagreements with it.
    http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html
     
  12. preacher4truth

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    That's a great testimony brother.

    I hope God will continue to use you as He has.

    I also lean toward Reformed theology. God also, has lead me this way, by showing to me things that others have avoided and hidden themselves from.

    It is amazing how God does these things, and shows us His glory. The view of the Godhead I got from my past involvement in churches was very inadequate, and painted God as this very simplistic, almost manipulative being. I am finding out what it means for our God to be the Sovereign God He is, and He is an awesome God.

    Thanks.
     

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