Female Anglican Bishop

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by DHK, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. DHK

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    OTTAWA - Canada's Anglican bishops have selected Edmonton's Victoria Matthews as one of four candidates to be their next primate.

    If elected, Matthews, 49, the first female bishop in Canada, would be the first female primate in the worldwide Anglican Communion.

    Read more at:
    Edmonton Female Bishop
    DHK
     
  2. frozencell

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    Huh. Shame, shame, shame.
     
  3. Jude

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    "Female Bishop" Oxymoron
     
  4. Dan Todd

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    My Bible states that a Bishop is to be the husband of one wife!

    I've never seen a woman who could meet that qualification!
     
  5. HisMercy

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    Galatians 3:28 says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

    Isaiah 54:5 says "For thy Maker is thine husband; The LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called."

    Jeremiah 31:32 says "...which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

    Who is the husband? Who is the wife? Who is the bridegroom? Who is the bride? The spiritual language of God is foolishness to the natural man.
     
  6. Paul of Eugene

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    Apparantly not for anglicans.

    They have the constitutional right to form their religion according to their beliefs, don't they?

    Psst - I hear they even baptize babies!
     
  7. Jim1999

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    In my latter days of teaching in a school that trained Anglican, United Church and other denominations, female students outnumbered male students 4-1. The ascendency of female clergy was inevitable.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Turbeville

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    Not biblical to have a female priest or bishop or pastor....!
     
  9. john6:63

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    Yep, that’s right. The way these liberal protestant denominations get around this fact is to respond by saying that the Bible isn’t really inspired or that Paul was only writing to people in his generation and it’s not meant for our generation of today.
     
  10. John3v36

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    1 Corinthians 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
     
  11. music4Him

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    Ok you fellas you baiting us ladies to reply? Be nice we sometimes cook the dinner. [​IMG]
    BTW, do tell what "law" it is that a woman is suppost to be in obediance to?

    The OT law that Jesus set us free from if we recive Him?
    Galtians 23-24
    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Gal.4:4-5
    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


    If then women recive the adoption of sons then does she therefore not fit in the catagory as other women who have not recived the adoption (salvation)? Or would that mean that women are not worthy because of gender? As Paul would say... Nay,I must protest! [​IMG]
    Gal 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


    Or are women under the law of the Spirit?
    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    Bareing Romans 8:1-2 in mind~
    1Tim. 1:9
    Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,....ect.

    Are you saying that us christian women are still not righteous and still fit in one or more of the above catagories? :(

    Or was it mans law/commandments that Paul was speaking of?
    Titus 1:14
    Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.



    How about the law of liberty?
    James 2:12
    So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.



    Or what about these scriptures?
    Eph 2:15
    Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Gal. 5:14
    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Gal. 5:18
    But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    1Tim. 1:8
    But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    Question here...If the law puts a free man or woman back into bondage is that a good use of a law?
    Rom 8:15
    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    Rom. 8:21
    Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    2Cor. 11:20
    For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

    Gal 2:4
    And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:


    With these scriptures mentioned tell me how 1Timothy Chapter 2 still has the final authority for women to keep silent? To me its standing alone? Because in 1Cor.12:33-36 it seems that Paul is saying that women hear from God too and that its ok for her to speak?
    ~34.For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
    34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    Dan said:
    My Bible states that a Bishop is to be the husband of one wife.
    I do agree with you Dan, my bible says the same thing too. But what about teachers and preachers? Does it say they have to be a husband of one wife or can women teach or preach the gospel as well? [​IMG]

    ~Music4Him~

    BTW, I am sure this topic has been debated to the max? I assumed you really wanted a woman to comment too because its in the debate board? ;)
    I hope this post is taken in the charity that it was written in. I just didn't like how women as a part of the body of Christ were being spoke of. Please remember men and women in Christ are still on the Lords side. [​IMG]
     
  12. DHK

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    How can you conclude that in 1Cor.12, God is telling women that they can speak when the verse expressly tells them they cannot?? :confused:

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

    But the more important teaching is in 1Tim.2:11,12
    1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    1. She may not teach.
    2. She may not have any position of authority over the man.
    3. She is to be in silence and learn in silence.

    Those conditions prohibit a woman from becoming a pastor, or "holding the office of a bishop," (to use the KJV).
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    The biblical position is that women should be teaching (and perhaps even preaching) to other women and children; but definitely not to men.
    DHK
     
  13. music4Him

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    How can you conclude that in 1Cor.12, God is telling women that they can speak when the verse expressly tells them they cannot??

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


    All I am asking please is to read futher down
    1Cor. 12:
    36 it seems that Paul is saying that women hear from God too and that its ok for her to speak?
    ~34.For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
    34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

    These are a few questions I have since concidering the other scriptures in the other above post and since ya'll seem to be more seasoned knowledgeable on these types of debates. (BTW, I am saying this sweetly like a inocent little lamb so please don't take it any other way) [​IMG]

    1.Are men the only ones who hear from God?

    2.Why do women still have to be put under the law?

    3.Could Paul possibly be talking to the unsaved women who hasn't recived the adoptions of sons ergo she shold keep silent, because you can't learn in a noisy area? (I was going to say Paul couldn't answer our complex questions either so he put that on our hubbys. LOL [​IMG] (Look its a joke ya'll)

    These are just a few of the "many" questions I have, but I did see Dan's point on the Bishop (overseer) part of the reply. Like I said on another board I hold to most Baptist beliefs. This one to me has two sides as far as the orders for Bishop (to me a higher rank in the church) than preacher or teacher. I still think even so that I preacher or teacher can teach/preach without usurping authority over men. For me to usurp authority I would be in no uncertian trems telling men thay would have to accept my word or else. (I am not that way) I just put the word out there and let the Holy Spirit do the work.
    ~Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of host.

    But another question is all the scriptures that use the word "man & men" in some of those scripture can it mean "mankind"(men and women) in as in the whole body of Christ?

    Thank you for your concideration in this matter. [​IMG]

    Music4Him
     
  14. music4Him

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    Please forgive the misspelled words in that post above and this didn't make since either.

    I still think even so that I as woman became a preacher or teacher can teach/preach without usurping authority over men.


    M4H
     
  15. music4Him

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    *moderator, can you edit/correct/or remove the above post as this post here is how it should be intended?

    Thank you~
     
  16. Jude

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    The problem is that female presbyters/elders have no warrant, either in Scripture, or in the history of the Church. The issue is not 'ability' or 'intelligence'. Jesus picked MEN to be His Apostles. That office continued through MALES, as Bishop/elders, later becoming 2 separate offices.

    A passage from Galatians was also cited...
    Gal 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Paul, in context, is NOT talking about 'holy orders'. He's talking about our equality in Christ. Now equality does not preclude women being subordinate to men. Think of the Trinity. All three persons 'equal', yet the Spirit and the Son are subordinate to the Father. All equal. Different roles.

    Men are to lead churches. Men only are called to be presbyters/elders.
     
  17. John3v36

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    The problem is that female presbyters/elders have no warrant, either in Scripture, or in the history of the Church. The issue is not 'ability' or 'intelligence'. Jesus picked MEN to be His Apostles. That office continued through MALES, as Bishop/elders, later becoming 2 separate offices.

    A passage from Galatians was also cited...
    Gal 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Paul, in context, is NOT talking about 'holy orders'. He's talking about our equality in Christ. Now equality does not preclude women being subordinate to men. Think of the Trinity. All three persons 'equal', yet the Spirit and the Son are subordinate to the Father. All equal. Different roles.

    Men are to lead churches. Men only are called to be presbyters/elders.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Very Good Jude!

    Men and women are equal but different.
    Equal is not identical.
    We are equal but men can not have babies.
    We have different roles.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. music4Him

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    Just a question then.....
    Is it that women go back under the law and bondage? What law was Paul talking about?

    I just can't understand it when you say we are equal then say but "no talking". Or we are free but still are suppost to "keep silent"? Does that make since?

    BTW, where does it say the preachers or teachers have to be male? I know that it says that bishop and decons do but what about the other stations? (Eph. 4:11) apostles, prophets (Meriam, Deborah are OT example & Anna, Philips 4 daughters are NT examples of where prophet can also be prophetesses. As for teachers what about Priscilla helped Aquilla? They taught Apollos and in the scripture it seemed that she was givin honour for some reason by Paul for her name was mentioned before Aquilla? Why was that? I thought that the man would have been acknowledged first?
    These are a few of many questions I have in a womans defence.

    I don't want to argue I just know what I have been shown and belive. I know that some people belive its a shame for women to speak because thats their doctrine. Hey that is fine if the law is not abused and used to be controlling and to put ones self higher then they ought. I like how Priscilla and Aquilla seemed to work together in their teaching. [​IMG]

    Music4Him
     

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