Final Authority

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, May 16, 2004.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    Some KJVOs have a standard answer for any facts presented to them which shows the KJVO myth wrong: YOU HAVE NO FINAL AUTHORITY! Now isn't that about as phony as a football bat, simply a NON-ANSWER?

    First, the Christian's final authority is JESUS CHRIST. This has nothing to do with WHICH VERSION(s) of the Bible was used to have introduced any of us to Him. We claim the final authority of JESUS and His word as ours.

    Then, what is the final authority of the KJVO who claims we have none? Seems it would be some 47 Anglicans who made a BV under the direction of an Anglican big shot. However, let me add this has NOTHING to do with their faith in JESUS, which we have no right to question. But we don't see the KJVO mentioning this whenever he/she says we have no final authority because we don't subscribe to their clueless myth.

    So tell us, O KJVOs, what/who IS your final authority?
     
  2. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    But robycop, we do have that right "by their fruits..." .

    The Church of England was established by Henry the 8th because the Church of Rome forbade him to divorce his any of his wives.

    Found online at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon

    The CofE denies all of the Baptist distinctives to this very day. In the past they have persecuted and even murdered Christians. They resemble Rome in practice and worship and have their own version of the Roman mass and a modified version of baptismal regeneration, they are paedobaptists and are Arminian to the point of denying OSAS (just to mention only a few of our disagreements with them).

    HankD
     
  3. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2002
    Messages:
    714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hank - "Anglicans" are a very diverse group. Traditional (and also offical, BTW) Anglican theology does teach OSAS, rejects baptismal regeneration, and declares the communion only a symbol. They have many problems, though most of them are simply due to their leaders not believing their statement of faith (the 39 articles of religion).
     
  4. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    Yes, Bartholomew, I realize that there is both "high" and "low" Church. I have read the 39 articles of religion, which BTW, modern anglicanism says is not necessarily binding on anglicans.

    The term “sacrament” is used when referring to the Eucharist which to Baptist Christians (to this one anyway) indicates an erroneous view of the Lord’s Table (as if it were a channel of sanctifying grace) and a pious form of “double-talk” IMO.

    The CofE definition of the “sacrament” of baptism is also an exercise in double-talk IMO seeing that “young children” may receive said “sacrament” and be “grafted into the Church”.
    How tell does one become grafted into the Body of Christ apart from the new birth?

    HankD
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    I'm afraid some confusion has resulted due to my lack of writing skills. What I MEANT to say was that we have no right to question the current KJVOs' faith in Jesus unless one does something clearly and absolutely un-Christian such as cuss out someone. I used quite poor sentence construction in my post.

    The misunderstanding was MY fault, and I apologize to Hank & Bartholomew for any confusion I caused.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,147
    Likes Received:
    322
    Not a problem [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  7. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    The idea that "Jesus Christ is your final authority" sounds very spiritual. However it is not practical. When debating, when contending for a doctrine, can you go to Jesus Christ? Does he answer the Batphone? (I used to think he did when I was charismatic.) No! All we have is the written Word. The question is who bows to whom? A MVer on another post just yesterday refuted a biblical argument of mine with "My bible doesn't say that." Oh we love the KJV. We revere it. But of course, if it crosses a pet doctrine, we often go scrambling and rummaging for multiple choice version B. So who is the "Final Authority"? You? Or God's Word?

    Lacy
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    Lacy:The idea that "Jesus Christ is your final authority" sounds very spiritual. However it is not practical. When debating, when contending for a doctrine, can you go to Jesus Christ? Does he answer the Batphone? (I used to think he did when I was charismatic.) No! All we have is the written Word.[/i]

    Through the written word, I learned about Jesus, and by what is written, I learned that to be saved, I had to submit to Him as my final authority. And I totally believe He is the final Authority over His word, as He IS The Word.


    The question is who bows to whom? A MVer on another post just yesterday refuted a biblical argument of mine with "My bible doesn't say that."

    Just as KJVOs sometimes do.


    Oh we love the KJV. We revere it. But of course, if it crosses a pet doctrine, we often go scrambling and rummaging for multiple choice version B. So who is the "Final Authority"? You? Or God's Word?

    Physically, on earth, it's God's word, as He chooses to present it. The same cannot be said of the Onlyists.(Not just KJVOs, but ANY one-version onlyist) They seem to have faith(NOT questioning their faith in GOD!) in one translator or group of translators to have made the be-all and end-all BV. There's simply NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for such an idea.

    I said in another thread that I'm a poor wordsmith. While my ULTIMATE final authority is Jesus, I must recognize His word as the highest written authority on earth.

    Thus, KJVO is dead in the water, as it is NOT supported by that highest written authority, even within the KJV itself.
     
  9. LarryN

    LarryN
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lacy, some serious questions that I've never seen even remotely close to being answered:

    Which edition of the KJV? The 1611, the 1769, or one of the others, perhaps?

    For that matter, which edition of the TR (among the numerous) is claimed as the basis of the KJV?

    Without extant manuscripts of the KJV Committee's work, how can one make any authoritative claim whatsoever that the KJV (in any edition) is an accurate representation of the translation they produced?
     
  10. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
  11. LarryN

    LarryN
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    I took a cursory scan through this thread, and I saw lots of unsubstantiated conjecture and speculation, but not the "answers" I was inquiring about. Will I find them if I read it more thoroughly, or will I just be wasting my time?

    Can you be more specific in pointing me to the answers to my questions?
     
  12. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. LarryN

    LarryN
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Lacy, I'll take a look.
     
  14. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're welcome brother. I know it probably won't sway you, but at least I try to answer the questions. God bless.

    Lacy
     
  15. Refreshed

    Refreshed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2002
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not KJVO, but I'll give it a shot anyway. The Bible has to be the final authority or we have no room for discussion, especially as Baptists.

    I'll dig some stuff up and post it later, but I don't feel like it now as I just got off work.

    Jason
     
  16. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus Christ should be our final authority but the Bible is his letter to us so it contains what he would have us do but i believe its right to say Jesus Christ is out final authority the one thing we dont want to do is place the Bible above Jesus.
     
  17. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    0
    but i believe its right to say Jesus Christ is our final authority the one thing we dont want to do is place the Bible above Jesus
     
  18. Slambo

    Slambo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Lord puts His word above His name......Look @ Psalm 138:2..That's Bible!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lacy Evans: //The question is who bows to whom? A MVer on another post
    just yesterday refuted a biblical argument of mine with
    "My bible doesn't say that." Oh we love the KJV.
    We revere it. But of course, if it crosses a pet doctrine,
    we often go scrambling and rummaging for multiple choice
    version B. So who is the "Final Authority"? You? Or God's Word?//

    1. If you would be so kind as to tell me what your Bible
    is, I would refute Your arguments with your Bible
    instead of with my Bible.

    2. BTW, i use the KJV1769 to refute MVs readings
    of 2 Thess 2:3 (except the nKJV = New King James Version,
    still agrees with the old KJV).
    "Falling away" supports my eschatology; "apostasy" does
    not. In other Words (i.e.) the selection of a pleasing
    version can go both ways even leading
    to the KJV1769.

    3. If you say "God's written word in the KJV1769 is the
    Final Authority" you have to assume this:
    If any discrepancy seems to exist it is our fault NOT
    God's fault.
    If I say "God's written word in any English version/edition
    is the final authority", I have to assume this:
    If any discrepancy seems to exist, it is our fault
    NOT God's fault.

    I won't give anybody a nickel* for the difference.
    *(One of those new nickels with the
    golf clubs on the back ;) )

    4. The riot act IAW Ed:

    I believe the Bible is the
    inerrant written words of God.
    It is nonsense for me to
    believe that my understanding
    of all the Bible is inerrant.

    You believe your Bible is the
    inerrant written words of God.
    It is nonsense for me to
    believe that your understanding
    of all your Bible is inerrant.


    Surely i have respect enough for my
    Brother in Christ that i will allow you your
    opinion. If further you believe your
    opinion, i will allow that also.
    But i will receive the same consideration
    for my opinion/belief.
    I am speaking of my opinion of what the Bible
    said versus your opinion of what the Bible said.
    What the Bible said is true, what
    the Bible means is your opinion or
    is my opinion.
    Don't get your opinion of what the Bible meant
    get confused with what the Bible said.
    I'll try not to get my opinion of what the
    Bible means to get confused with what the
    Bible says.

    5. We are then each a final authority unto
    ourselves. You go restudy the Doctrine of the Priesthood
    of the Believer, a Baptist distinctive.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    0

Share This Page

Loading...