FLDS Texas Ranch

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Waremock, Apr 24, 2008.

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  1. Waremock

    Waremock
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  2. The Scribe

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    A bunch of lies form Texas. There was no need for the raid. The "child" the called turned out to be a compulsive liar that continues to call in false reports. Why isn't she locked up?

    Since when did the "sheriff" need a tank?

    Sheriff's tank

    Looks like they are the military not the local police. Which is wrong.
     
  3. donnA

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    Young girls being brained washed into thinking if they didn't marry old men they'd go to hell, then taken without legal marriage into bed with these old men. No, no need for any intervention.

    They can't give children back to mothers who won't claim them. They have been lying about which children belong to which mothers, thats why they had to do dna testing. The reason for the lies is that otherwise they'd have to admit they have been sending 14 yr old girls to be with old men. All links have been posting in the other threads, all you have to do is go click them.
     
    #3 donnA, Apr 24, 2008
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  4. queenbee

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    It is sad, but better to be safe than sorry or the community at large, continuing in the complicity. We have the same situation up here in Bountiful, BC. In fact, it's believed that some of the children rounded up in Texas are originally from Canada. Government authorities here in BC are keeping a close eye on this whole situation in Texas and may finally close in on the polygamist community in Bountiful to take further action as well.
     
  5. Palatka51

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    I must say that I am completely mixed over this issue. The idea of multiple wives alone is enough to make it a repugnant religion. Then you throw out the young men so you can have all the young girls to yourself is beyond repugnant. Something needed to be done. If these girls who are under age are having babies, aren't Dr's supposed to inform CPS? How is it then that they jumped on a call from an anonymous source? Surely this sect is using a Dr and hospital for maternity purposes.

    Then you have the fact that local law enforcement is being trained with commando like maneuvers for this type of raid, is a repugnant use of government. At anytime someone were to lie about yours or my congregation are we to expect the same?
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

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    Doubtful. They probably have their own women act as midwives and deliver at home.
     
  7. mactx

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    I live in the city where this is going on. I talk to folks daily who deal with these kids.
    The media is not telling the truth of it.
    2 things i was told today raise the hair on the back of my neck.
    1) every day with prayers, the children repeat, as if meditaitng.
    Smile.
    pray.
    Sweetly obey.
    On the surface nothing wrong with that, unlessy ou happen to live with a child mosleter.

    2) The cult founder (not Jeffs, but his father) said before he died that no one under 18 was to marry.
    So not only are they ignoring the laws of God and the laws of the land, but also the law of the man who founded their order.
    It is time some one put a stop to the lunacy.

    A friend said to me today they were being persecuted for being mormon. That again is baloney. They are being justly prosecuted for breaking the law, and mandatory jail time for each adult invovled should be required.

    The media has not gone into how churches in this community are reaching out to these kids, making each child a hand sewn quilt (233 completed as of yesterday). They are too busy whipping peoples misplaced emotions up into a frenzy.
    I support the kids 100%. The parents however need to be far far away from children for the rest of their lives.
     
  8. tinytim

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    Oh, boo hoo hoo.. those poor mothers that miss their children!

    pish tosh~! Those mothers should never be allowed to see their children again...

    They hand them over to child molesters in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Blasphemy...

    If it were up to me, the mothers would get a death sentence.
    They are accessories to perverts!

    Every Flds compound should be raided, and shut down.
    I believe in the freedom of religion.. but molesting children goes too far.

    Child molesters should get the death sentence.

    But that is just my humble opinion...
     
  9. queenbee

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    Amen - this is probably very true, to keep everything 'in-house'. It is repugnant to me that young girls 12 - 14 years of age are being made 'celestial wives'. These babies are barely out of their own baby years. Have any of you been watching the videos showing these women rounded up from the ranch and in the shelter(s)? It's not hard to see that quite a few look to be 18 and under. Children can be indoctrinated to say/believe anything and I think to a fair extent, this is what has been going on.

    Believe it was Waremock who provided this web link http://www.fldstruth.org/ in his/her comment. Interesting that on this FLDS link, there is no bio/commentary on the last 3 'supposed ' bishops of the faith. What does that tell you??
     
    #9 queenbee, Apr 24, 2008
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  10. Squire Robertsson

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  11. windcatcher

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    All I know about this group is what is being reported by the news.

    Some comments are posted associated with names so conceivably there is a way to trace back to the source and establish the basis for their statement. For example, I read in this last report that there is a 'doctor' (what kind? a licensed physician? a homeopathic practioner?) belonging to the FLDS who stated his opinion: He is not identified. The 'outsiders' have identities, why doesn't he?

    It strikes me that these forums are not a court of law:
    I am not on the jury. Some things, as stated, are clearly wrong: However, I am not privileged to know the evidence behind the statements. What I hear and read in the news is not presented as sworn testimony: Furthermore the balance is dominant on one side, the government releasing information in defense of their action. Very little or no testimony is coming from the other side: the only card played so far is basically the sympathy card.

    There are so many differences between them and me that I have little to nothing to compare with: therefore I admit to my ignorance. I admit also to the lack of wisdom to compare: But, once again, if I compare the allegations by the standards evidenced by society at large I do see double standards: I see too much immorality and abuse in society at large to throw a first stone.... and that when I have no eye witness authority to their alleged abuses.

    just my opinion!

    -------------------
    And to the few of you who like to attack my position of having no position.....Go chunk it! I've had enough of your twisting words and flaming me and dressing me in the garments of your own purelent imagination: for such it is when you take a sister or brother in Christ and accrue to him the vilest motives and accusations simply because he/she refuses to agree and take up your banner of conviction before trial. I honor your right to your opinion regarding this group. Please respect my right to present my own position.
     
  12. donnA

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    Well, you at least didn't support their 'right' to sexually abuse young girls, making them live in fake marria
    ges.
     
  13. windcatcher

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    I don't think any of the articles presented suggests there are such rights..... and surely you are too fine a person to be putting words in another poster's mouth.
     
  14. donnA

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    Well, a certain someone here has been suggesting they should not have been bothered and left alone to molest children and commit crimes.
    Like it or not.
     
  15. windcatcher

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    I hear you saying that!

    I hear you saying that repeatedly!

    Do you purposely attack me or are you this friendly with everyone?
     
  16. Joe

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    How about we get back to the discussion alright. :)

    There has been much ado about the call to CPS being false except I didn't see it as being a valid objection. The States offer what is called Immunity. All calls to CPS are considered good faith calls. Except in my research, I just read Texas is a little different about this but you can click the link to learn more. Also, religous leaders are not mandatory reporters in Texas. To my knowledge, Texas is tough on crime.

    Here are some statue's/laws to mull over. It is pretty clear from the reports which one's they are using to prosecute, or at least considering prosecution. Findlaw is an online resource where we look these up to understand the criminal penalites.
    Cut and pasted-
    http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemw...e/index.cfm?event=stateStatutes.processSearch


    http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/immunity.cfm

    Immunity for Making Reports
    All States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. territories of American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and the Virgin Islands provide some form of immunity from liability for persons who in good faith report suspected instances of child abuse or neglect under the reporting laws. Immunity statutes protect reporters from civil or criminal liability that they might otherwise incur. This protection is extended to both mandatory and voluntary reporters.2
    The term "good faith" refers to the assumption that the reporter, to the best of his or her knowledge, had reason to believe that the child in question was being subjected to abuse or neglect. Even if the allegations made in the report cannot be fully substantiated, the reporter is still provided with immunity. There is a "presumption of good faith" in approximately 17 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, and Guam, which means that the good faith of the reporter is assumed unless it can be proven to the contrary.3


    Immunity is denied for acting with malice or in bad faith in 9 States: Arizona, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri, Montana, New Mexico, Texas, and Virginia. Immunity is denied for knowingly making a false report in 9 States: California, Louisiana, Maine, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, and Washington.

    I used to work in CPS doing Intake- Here's a description of my former job. It helps to understand the process.
    http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/cps/cpse.cfm
     
    #16 Joe, May 1, 2008
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  17. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you Joe for the pointer. I think even I can make it simpler:

    The civilian reporter reports to Child Welfare. A professional or maybe more from Child Welfare check into the specifics of the report. If something is done, it is done on the basis of what the trained Child Welfare professionals say NOT on the basis of what the untrained civilian reporter said.

    Note that this process does NOT keep a 'civilian reporter' from bringing charges which the authorities will check (the police call a Child Welfare expert to go with them). In the case the 'civilian reporter' causes civil charges, the one changed has the Constitutional right to defend themselves before the charger.

    Note in the first case, the charged has the Constitutional right to defend themselves before the charger -- but their charger is a Child Welfare person.
     
  18. Ed Edwards

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    Here newbie, let me help you. DonnA is the board social checker. If one can not get along with DonnA, one does not belong on this board. DonnA is the board sanity checker. If one can not get along with DonnA, one does not get listened unto.
     
  19. Joe

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    Sounds good Ed. To clarify this sentence-The report is to be based upon what the untrained civilian said, not the words of the intake worker.
    The intake person asks a set of questions. They then will add any additional info the caller wishes to add, or anthing that is deemed important. It is not up to the Intake person to change any of the persons words, though they will subtly attempt to ask the person to clarify if it doesn't make sense. It needs to be as true to form as possible. The intake worker's first objective is to determine if police/ambulance needs to be dispatched right then, then they go from there.
     
    #19 Joe, May 1, 2008
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  20. Ed Edwards

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    I might mention one other source of what I know about Child Welfare. My first wife was an attendance clerk at an elementary school. Everytime someone checks out of school (especialy if NOT asked to forward records) - Child Welfare is notified. Yes, 98% of all abused children are (pardon the expression) HOME SCHOOLED. Of course, no where near 03% of home schoooled children are abused. (that is why the Child Welfare professional checks the situation).
     
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