Foolish Jesting And Shameful Talk

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Feb 20, 2003.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    In Ephesians the Lord said,

    "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

    For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

    And,

    "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

    Frequently I hear Christians, even pastors, make jokes about such things as sodomites, adultery, and fornication. Not only so, I have frequently gone into the homes of church members, and even other pastors, where the TV was displaying some scene of carnal lust for the whole family to see

    Does not the Lord put speaking and joking about such things in the same category as doing them?

    As the Lord said it is shameful even to speak of these things, how can we justify displaying them before our families in living color?

    Does not the Lord declare that these things incur the wrath of God on those who practice them? If so, how can we go on as if it is no small matter when a brother cracks some filthy joke or allows his children to attend some dirty movie?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. rufus

    rufus
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    Mark said

    We ought not go on as if it is a small matter! It ought to grieve US!

    Thanks for the post!

    rufus [​IMG]
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Amen. I love humor and use it extensively. But there is a lot of subject matter that is "no laughing matter".

    I have witnessed first-hand some of the most disgraceful language from well-known ifb preachers. Racial jokes, sexual inuendoes and filth.

    We need to be careful. And guys like me, who live with lots of humor, have to be even more careful. Thanks for the reminder.
     
  4. Christian41974

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    I agree with you sir, dirty jokes ought to be dirty to our ears,and we ought to mark those who walk that way and be different ourselves. Thank you again for the post.
     
  5. Andrey

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    Church gossip is also foolish talk, we should treat it the same way.

    Denouncing other Christians, of other denominations, because they don't agree with us 100% on religious issues is foolish talk, too.

    Believing that only those that agree with us are going to heaven is foolish, too.

    Do we also condemn all these things based on this scripture?

    I pray that it is so, but my experience has been otherwise with many fellow Baptists.

    "Jesus is not your Savior if He is not also your Lord."
     
  6. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Andrey,

    You said,

    "Denouncing other Christians, of other denominations, because they don't agree with us 100% on religious issues is foolish talk, too.

    Believing that only those that agree with us are going to heaven is foolish, too.

    Do we also condemn all these things based on this scripture?"

    Denouncing false doctrine is not foolish, it is commanded by the Scriptures. For those of us who know the one way of salvation - we must believe that all who disagree with it are not going to heaven.

    And just saying, "Jesus is the way" is not enough. One must define "Jesus" in a Scriptural way and must define how Jesus saves in a Scriptural way.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  7. Andrey

    Andrey
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    Mark, don't defend against attacks that are not there, it makes you look guilty.

    There are many "man-made" doctrines that many denominations use that are of little concern to God.

    Does He want you to be in a 3-piece suit, or does He want you humble? According to many Baptists, the suit is more important than the humility.

    I have often heard (in a Baptist church mind you) that the reason we get so dressed up on Easter is to ... "bring our best to God".

    Poppycock! It's because we are vain! It's because we are prideful! It's because we are not surrendering to His will, which is to be open and honest before Him.

    Yes, it is possible to be open and honest with God no matter what clothes one wears. And it is okay to have a dress code, but to condemn those that have a different dress code is too common among those that wear the label "Christians".

    I agree with you about "false doctrine", and am glad that you are not condemning me for not agreeing with you 100% on all your beliefs.

    <><
     
  8. Johnv

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    I happen to think that a good sense of humor can often be a spiritual gift. Indeed, not everyone is blessed with one.

    While I think that "joking" about something "can" be the same as participating in that same thing, it usually "isn't" participating inthat same thing. I believe it was Eddie Murphy who said that making jokes about racism is a good way to accept that racism is a joke.

    A typical book of medievil Irish limericks is very amusing, yet if you examine the content, it's also quite pornographic. Yet I probably would not be quick to judge a Christian brother if I saw a book of Irish limericks in his library.

    Just my $.02 there.
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    JohnV,

    Please give us your exegesis of Ephesians chapter 5 verses 1-12 with reference to the following statements:

    "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking nor juesting"

    and,

    "For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

    and,

    "because of these things cometh the wrath of God on the children of disobedience."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I think you assume that "joking" equates to "condoning". I make no such assumption. Often, the "joke" serves as polite condemnation or disapproval, and disapproval is something we're not supposed to hide, is it?
     
  11. blackbird

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    Let me give you an example of "foolish jesting"--I was making plans to attend the FBC, Jacksonville, FL Pastor's School--the folks in church knew I was going--one man right in the middle of the hallway with about 50 folks listening says something like--"Preacher! You better call us before the meeting is over in Jacksonville! You might not have a church to come back to!!" Implying they just may fire me while I'm gone! He's always going on like the church is fixin' to fire me! What a relief it will be when I'm gone!

    Another form of foolish jesting is when you have a man always "struttin'" around talkin' like he's fixin' to hurt somebody physically--"Buddy! I don't take(blank)off of nobody! I'll lay them down on the ground!" "If he knows whats good for him he'd . . . .!

    We could go on in our difinitions, couldn't we??

    Blackbird
     
  12. Rick Sr.

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    Andry, don't know where you got your poll, but, here in Tennessee, we believe in the condition of the heart not the clothes. Many SBC churches I have attended and visited are of the same belief, but, we do not condone man-made doctrines that go against what the Bible teaches, such as homosexuality.
    Keep praying and stay away from jokes and language that you wouldn't use in front of Jesus,because you are. Rick Sr.
     
  13. Mark Osgatharp

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    JohnV,

    You said,

    "I think you assume that 'joking' equates to 'condoning'."

    No sir, I'm noting that Paul said joking about foolish and filthy things is as much to be avoided as the filthy things themselves.

    You said,

    "Often, the 'joke' serves as polite condemnation or disapproval, and disapproval is something we're not supposed to hide, is it?"

    Actually, refusing to joke about such things serves to give a much stronger condemnation. And the fact still remains, the Lord said not to joke about such things.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  14. Johnv

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    And the fact still remains, the Lord said not to joke about such things.

    Not quite. Paul said not to joke about such things. It's up to us to understand what Paul was referring to, which brings us to the discussion at hand.

    Eph. 5:4: As Paul listed the things which are unbecoming to saints (v. 3), he included some things in this verse which come as a surprise to many Christians today. He tells us not to use "foolish talking" and "jesting, which are not convenient."

    The Greek word which was translated "foolish" literally meant "foolish talk" or "buffoonery." Paul is basically repeating a statement he made in chapter 4, verse 29. Foolish talk is not a godly trait. This is not to say that there is no place for joy and fun in the Christian life. Jesus Himself was anointed with the oil of gladness more than anyone around Him (Heb. 1:9). Jesus had a good time, but He was never foolish.

    Next Paul mentions jesting, but he qualifies this with specifying jesting which is not convenient. That means there is some jesting which is convenient. The word "convenient" here means "to be suitable." Joking with a person in an appropriate, good, and suitable way can be very useful to building relationships. But jesting with a person in an inappropriate way can be very damaging. It is not always easy to know what type of jesting is appropriate, but it can definitely be said that if the person you are kidding doesn't like it, it is inappropriate.

    The NRSV translates this verse as, "Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving." The NIV translates it as, "Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving."

    Paul also says that thanksgiving is the opposite of the filthiness, foolish talking, and inappropriate jesting he had just condemned. Thanksgiving takes humility. A proud person isn't thankful. He only thinks of himself. All the things Paul is condemning in these verses are rooted in selfishness. If our motive is to bless others, then our jesting will always be appropriate and not the type Paul is warning against in these verses.
     
  15. JonHenry

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    I believe silly & funny conversations should be disciplined -- should be cut a little short. Most conversations I've had (of the not-serious kind)that went downhill did so because they went too long.
     
  16. Alcott

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    That is not exactly what the scripture you cited says. Rather about joking: "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: "

    Checking other translations, most say "coarse jesting." It's one of those terms, like "disorderly" and "carnal," that the Bible uses but does not really define.

    So is the joke ['old' by now] "coarse" which asks what kind of car is mentioned in the Bible? {Nissan, because "they came together in one Accord."} How about all the jokes about Adam and Eve? {Sure Adam was made first, but you always make a roughdraft before the perfected copy.} Then how about the jokes about songs and hymns? {What is the 'dentist's hymn'? Crown Him with Many Crowns}.
     
  17. Andrey

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    Rick,
    I didn't take the poll, I just looked around the Baptist church I attend. People dress up real pretty, especially on Easter.

    I guess they don't know how foolish they look, they remind me of that children's story about "The Emperor's New Clothes".

    I don't tell jokes to people that I would not tell to Jesus, and am sorry if I misled you on that one.

    You can take the same poll, next Easter. Just look around your church, or if you don't want to wait that long, ask someone what the phrase "Sunday Best" means.

    Jesus is not your Savior if He is not your Lord.

    <><
     

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