For By Grace Are Ye Saved

There is a HUGE problem here.

The soul of man is described as dead in sins and trespasses, but the soul is not dead in the sense that it is not alive. When one seeks to equate physical death to spiritual death a disconnect occurs. The only likeness in the two is "separation" but of a different kind and state. The difference between physical and spiritual is the physical ceases to exist and returns to the elements it came from. The soul that is dead in sins and trespasses does not return to non existence, it lives forever either in heaven or the lake of fire after physical death. Therefore, a dead soul is alive but separated from God because of sin.

 

I think the problem is you think there are different qualities of faith, and the high quality leads to salvation. Scripture states it only takes the faith of a child.

 

The faith of a child is what saving faith is: an utter dependence upon God to do for you what you cannot do for yourself. It is the evidence of things unseen. Flipping on a light switch and rightly expecting the circuitry to perform as it is designed is not "faith." Sitting in a chair and expecting it to do what it is designed to do is not "faith." If either of these things malfunction because of something that went unnoticed that is obviously contrary to the normal expectancy also does not mean that this so-called "faith" was misplaced.

 

You are incorrect. Look up the word trust or faith in a concordance. You will see that men trust in idols, men trust in riches, or their military power, and many other things. The same word is used, the Bible does not make the distinction for the word trust or faith that you do. It does not speak of a supernaturally imposed faith.

Psa 31:14 But I trusted in thee, O LORD: I said, Thou art my God.

Psa 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;

Psa 44:6 For I will not trust in my bow, neither shall my sword save me.

Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

The word trust, trusted, and trusteth is the exact same word in these verses. It is the object of your faith that is important. Your wealth cannot save you, neither power, or false gods. Only Jesus can save you.

Psa 56:11 In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me.

 

Grace means the undeserved and unmerited favor of God. It means he loved us even though we were sinners worthy of death.

You cannot have access to God's grace without faith.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

You are not saved until you come to Christ.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

You cannot come to God unless you have faith.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

If you cannot have life until you come to Christ, and you cannot come to God unless you have faith, then this shows you have faith before you have life.

And faith comes by hearing the word of God.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Therefore, you must be able to hear and believe God's word before you have life.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

John 3:3-8 does not say God regenerates a man to have faith. The word faith is not even mentioned, nor the word regenerated.

Jesus did say you must be born again of the Spirit, but the only effect he showed that a man can discern is that he said we can hear the sound thereof.

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

This sound is the word of God. Jesus said his words were spirit, and they are life.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus said you must first hear his words, then believe, and then you will get eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Who is it that has everlasting life? He who hears Jesus's words and believes.

 

Old Regular

Well, we are never going to agree. I know Ephesians 2:8

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I also know that this verse has been controversial for centuries. Some believe the gift spoken of in this verse pertains to faith, other believe it pertains to the word grace, and still others that it pertains to salvation which is the topic of the passage. I understand you believe it refers to faith as most Calvinists do. I believe it refers to salvation.

The problem is, faith is spoken of in the scriptures literally dozens of times as belonging to the person. The person is also held accountable for having faith, or lack of faith.

Matt 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Now, if God gave these two blind men faith, then Jesus seemed to be completely unaware of it. First, he asks them if they believe. Then he says, "according to YOUR faith". So if God gave these men their faith, Jesus's comments are completely non-sensical to say the least.

And I could show you dozens of verses like that.

And what about Hebrews chapter 11, often called the "Hall of Faith"? In this chapter God honors great men of faith like Abraham, Moses, Abel, Noah, Rahab, Isaac, Jacob, Gideon and on and on.

If your doctrine is true, my comment would be, So what? Big deal. So Abraham believed against hope, what is so special about that? You gave him great faith. And so what that Moses gave up wealth and power in Egypt? You gave him this faith, he had no choice in the matter whatsoever.

Why did Jesus marvel when the centurion had great faith?

Matt 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith if God gave it to him?

I mean, if I gave you a brand new Porsche on Monday, if you drove up in it on Tuesday I would not be filled with marvel.

And if I gave you a pair of leather boots, I wouldn't then ask you if you owned a pair of leather boots. If I did, you would think there was something wrong with me.

But that is exactly the kind of questions Jesus asked people many times. He asked if they believed.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

If your doctrine is true, then Jesus statement to the father of the demon possessed boy is absurd. According to your doctrine, there is no such thing as "if thou canst believe". You either believe or you don't, and Jesus would be completely aware of whether you did or not.

John 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?


Again, this would be an absolutely ridiculous question if Calvinism is true. According to your doctrine, God's grace is irresistable. So if God gives you faith, you cannot possibly not believe. And if God does not give you faith, you cannot possibly believe. There is no room for asking "if" according to your doctrine. The only other alternative is to believe that Jesus did not have this knowledge. But the scriptures say Jesus knew from the beginning who would believe, and who would not.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

What do Calvinist's do when they come to verses like this? I could probably show you 20 more verses like this that make no sense whatsoever if your doctrine is true.

So, you cling to a single controversial verse to try to prove your doctrine, and ignore literally dozens of verses that prove it false.

 

Grace is not described by Scripture as a gift
Believing faith is not described by Scripture as a gift
Salvation is described by Scripture as a gift.

The Biblical definition of faith defies the Calvinist view to force it to be an infused special gift into the soul of man after he is regenerated. One must deny Hebrews 11:1 to hold to a view that believing faith is a special infused gift, much less to say it follows regeneration which cannot and never will be proven from the Bible.

 

Good point.

If faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen, then by that very definition it must come before regeneration because regeneration (by the Cal definition) is the opening of one's eyes and heart to see and understand.

 

Well, since Scripture states it comes from hearing (meaning understanding), those that can hear and understand are the ones that can have faith, and that is the origin.

 

If you're referring to Romans 10:17, the word is not referring to understanding. The word refers to hearing as the faculty of hearing. Perhaps it would be better to think of the organ of hearing--the ear.

So, while your interpretation of this passage is common, it does not conform to the Greek of the word.

Blessings,

The Archangel