? for former Catholics

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Apr 11, 2002.

  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you were, but no longer are Catholic:

    When you previously considered yourself Catholic, did you believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist?

    Ron [​IMG]
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,264
    Likes Received:
    4
    At one point I believed. But it was the first thing I began to doubt when I got older.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I agree with Mr. Curts. After I was saved, this doctrine was one of the first that I realized was in conflict with the plain teaching of the Word of God.
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,264
    Likes Received:
    4
    Think about it for a moment...

    If you could actually conjure up Jesus Christ, bodily, wouldn't you want to show him off to your friends first, maybe visit some hospitals & jails with him, bring him to work...instead of sticking him in a piece of cracker ?
     
  5. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's the Lutheran doctrine, Mr. Curtis. Lutherans believe the Body of Christ is present in, with, and under the substance of the bread. Same with the blood and wine.

    Catholics believe "the cracker," as you put it, is completely gone, and only the body of Christ remains. Furthermore, we have Biblical instruction to "take eat" and "take drink." This gift wasn't for us to carry around in our pockets and show it like pictures of our family.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,264
    Likes Received:
    4
    I distinctly remember my priest telling me Jesus was in the bread. He got there when the bread is put into the little gold cupboard(I don't remember what it's called), the priest said something I didn't quite hear, and told us Christ was in the bread.

    Whatever you call the bread after the secret incantations the priest uttered, to me it still looked like a plate of crackers. Tasted like crackers too. And the grape juice tasted like grape juice.

    [ April 12, 2002, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]
     
  7. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Curtis,

    What your saying, or whatever your priest said, or whatever you thought you heard your priest said, is not in ANY way Catholic teaching. Read ANY BOOK on the Eucharist and you will see otherwise.

    Jesus replaces the bread. There is no substance of bread left, only it's appearance to the senses. "This is my body." It's his body, not bread.

    No. No. No. The bread becomes Christ when the priest raises it up speaking the words of Institution. The remainder of the host is put away until the next mass in the "little gold cupboard." It doesn't change in there, because it has already transubstantiated.

    First, the "incantations," which they are not, are not secret. Almost all of it is audible, and the prayers that the priest say silently are not secret. We're having a dialouge mass in two weeks for the RCIA people to learn everything the priest says during the Mass, audible or not. It's not secret.

    Furthermore, again, it is bread and wine only to the senses, but in fact it is fully Jesus' body and blood. Also, what Catholic Church used grape juice instead of wine? I've never once heard of this.
     
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,264
    Likes Received:
    4
    Our Lady Immaculate, in Athol Massachusetts. They might not remember me, I stopped going there aroung '67.

    Look, I don't believe in transwhatever you call it. It makes absolutely no sense, and it's not biblical. It's another made-up doctrine made to take the power away from Christ's final words..."it is finished".

    What the people are eating is crackers, just like you buy in the IGA store. Nothing else. No man has the power to summon up Christ & turn him into food. Never has, never will. The next time we see Christ is either the rapture, our own death, or his millenial reign. You will not get me to buy that he only shows up for the catholic masses & then ...oh never mind!!!!

    I belive the eucharist theory is hogwash.
     
  9. dojotony

    dojotony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr Curtis, are you from Missouri? Because it seems you're coming from the show-me state! ;)

    Many people reject transubstantiation because to them it defies scientific logic. Well, if this logic is the guiding light, then doesn't the existence of God defy it as well? We cannot see Him, how do we know he exists?

    At the last supper, Christ said, "This is my body." He didn't say "This represents my body." He didn't say "This is bread and my body, all wrapped into one grab-bag of fun." He said:


    "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you."
    Luke 22, 19-20


    Does it sound fantastic? Yes! Does it sound unbelievable? Yes! But we're talking about God here! He is fantastic, and He might seem unbelievable...but hey, that's what makes Him God!
     
  10. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,264
    Likes Received:
    4
    And what Christ did on the cross completely satisfied God. We do not need to drag his son down here every Sunday & re-sacrifice him. It was finished at Calvary.

    If we could bring Christ to earth with our own power, why would we want to turn him into bread ? We certainly are NOT commanded to. Christ is at the right hand of God.(Romans 8:34) When Christ does come back to earth, his children will ALL know it.(1Thessalonians 4:16-18)

    It is not my wish to drag this website into yet another Catholic doctrine discussion. I left the RCC when I figured out that I was being lied to. Maybe I was wrong for ansewring T2U's inquiry, he has a habit of baiting us & trying to make us look bad. But, thankfully, I now know that Christ's work on the cross was sufficient for my salvation & I need not memorize a bunch of doctrines, prayers, & motions in order to help God keep me saved.

    See you in Heaven.... :D
     
  11. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did the loss of that belief preceed or follow leaving the Church?
     
  12. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is the Lamb (sacrifice) in Heaven in the Book of Revelation?

    I can't make you look bad (unless I bear false witness against you) only you can make yourself look bad. I merely ask questions, which given the certaintude that you have in the sufficiency and sole authority of the Bbile, should be able to answer.

    What is the prayer that you were told to say in order to be saved?

    Have you told your pastor that you don't need doctrines in order to be saved? Which of the Baptist doctrines are you willing to discard as unnecessary?

    Ron
     
  13. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,176
    Likes Received:
    324
    I would have responded to this inquiry but I see it has turned into the Grand Inquisition.

    HankD
     
  14. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks! I agree. Good thing the Mass is not a re-sacrifice, but a re-presentation of the same sacrifice.

    We don't do it with our own power. God does it all. This is Catholic teaching.

    We are commanded to in his last supper.

    This is a discussion board, and we are Catholic, and this is a place to discuss non-Baptist doctrines. Why are you posting here?

    Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. Ouch, that was a bad pun. [​IMG]

    Make you look bad, or exact the truth from you? There's a difference. I've entered into many baited Baptist questions as well, but I'm not going to stop posting over it.

    You minimalize something you don't understand by calling them "motions." That's not fair. What if I called your belief in the necessity of "immersion" at Baptism a mere motion that I must do? You wouldn't like it very much. If it wasn't important, you wouldn't defend it.

    You better believe it! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should I go find Baptist threads in this same vein and say about them what you say about this, Hank?
     
  16. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't understand what you are saying, Hank.

    Ron
     
  17. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmmm. Do you take this same attitude when someone prays for an indwelling of the Holy Spirit (or conjures up as you choose to phrase it)? Why keep the Spirit in your heart (much like the cracker you choose to ridicule) instead of a Tongue of Fire that you could use to impress your friends at work?

    Do you see how silly your words seem?

    To you see how disrespectful of our Lord your words sound?

    Ron
     
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Did the loss of that belief preceed or follow leaving the Church?</font>[/QUOTE]I am condemned on one thread for using my experiences. I am baited on this thread so that I might give my experiences. My experience is this: Trying2understand does not want to understand doctrine according to the Scriptures. When confronted with Scriptures, he will attack the experiences and whatever else he can find of others. Why don't you defend your doctrine of transubstantiation with the Word of God instead of taking a poll about how many believed it, and then interrogating them about their "experiences?"
    DHK
     
  19. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    DHK,

    I apologize if I went with this thread the wrong away.
     
  20. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did the loss of that belief preceed or follow leaving the Church?</font>[/QUOTE]I am condemned on one thread for using my experiences. I am baited on this thread so that I might give my experiences. My experience is this: Trying2understand does not want to understand doctrine according to the Scriptures. When confronted with Scriptures, he will attack the experiences and whatever else he can find of others. Why don't you defend your doctrine of transubstantiation with the Word of God instead of taking a poll about how many believed it, and then interrogating them about their "experiences?"
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]Take a breath, DHK. [​IMG]

    First of all, in what way do my little questions constitute "interrogating"? Or as Hank describes it, an "inquisition"?

    If you have the strength of your convictions, a simple declarative statement should sufficed as an answer to my little questions.

    Further, you have jumped to an erroneous conclusion as to my motive for these two little questions. Perhaps rather than judging me, you could simply answer the question.

    Of course, my experience with you is that I will have to ask the same question several times before you will answer it (even if only tangentially).

    So tell me, DHK, did the loss of a belief in the Real Presence preceed or follow leaving the Church?

    Ron [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...