For SDA's on Sunday worship

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by thessalonian, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    For our SDA Friends out there. Namely Bob, are Protestants who worship on Sunday going to hell. Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast as taught in SDA theology?
     
  2. BobRyan

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    Thess - now here is a subject I could not pass up. (Or could you guess).

    #1. No - people are not going to hell because they go to church on Sunday.

    #2. No - people who go to church on Sunday do not have the Mark of the Beast -

    #3. Go check out the 27 Fundamental Beliefs of SDAs - (it is published on the internet) if you want to know what they actually teach.

    Having said all that - we DO believe that the Bible is God's Word - that the Ten Commandments are valid - are God's Law and that they do define sin even in the NT (see Romans 7, Galations 3, Romans 3, James 2 etc).

    Of course Thess - I don't expect you to "Actually read" any of that - but I wanted to post it in case there are some who would.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Carson Weber

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    Bob, are Protestants who deny God's command to keep the Sabbath going to hell?
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Carson,

    As it turns out - Protestants (like Catholics) have the SAME Holy Spirit - working on them with the promises of John 16. "Convicting them of sin and righteousness and judment."

    TRansgression of the Law IS sin according to God's Word - and that means it is bigger than just - what day did you go to Church this week.

    If you are asking "How much can we ignore the Holy Spirit and still be OK" -- I would say "poor choice of games to play".

    If you are saying "but which sin is ok to commit" I would say "none of them".

    If you are saying "but aren't there people that don't even consider this to BE a sin?" I would say that James is right "To him who knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin".

    And Paul is right "Whatever is not of faith is sin".

    I can't change "what sin is" as God defines it - but I can "learn what it is" by reading His Word and listening to God the Holy Spirit.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Hi Bob,

    Not only did you not answer my original question but you spurred me on to ask a new one: Are you a professional dancer?

    Are Protestants who deny God's command to keep the Sabbath going to hell?
     
  6. BobRyan

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    I kinda thought that one would go over your head Carson. Sorry.

    I meant so say "read John 16:7-13.

    Let me know when you have it.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Oh and I forgot this one more point (In case we have some RC bretheren here who are tempted to pretend they don't understand the connection between the Law of God and sin and the Sabbath)...

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    So are these people false teachers Bob?

    "Sunday-keeping must be the mark of the beast." ... "The reception of his mark must be something that involves the greatest offense that can be committed against God." (The Marvel of Nations, Elder U. Smith pages 170, 183)

    "Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible." (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23)

    Hey, aren't her words divinely inspired?

    "The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)


    "The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.

    Ellen G. again. Divinely inspired Bob?

    "The mark of the beast is Sunday-keeping. A law will enforce this upon Seventh-day Adventists. They won't obey. Then they will be outlawed, persecuted, and condemned to death! Of all the wild Advent speculations in the prophecies, this deserves to stand among the wildest." (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)

    "Sunday-keeping is an institution of the first beast, and ALL who submit to obey this institution emphatically worship the first beast and receive his mark, 'the mark of the beast.' .... Those who worship the beast and his image by observing the first day are certainly idolaters, as were the worshippers of the golden calf." (Advent Review Extra, pages 10 and 11, August, 1850)


    "the Seventh day, Saturday, must be kept; that keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast; that all should pay tithes; that Mrs. White is inspired as were the writers of the Bible; that the Bible must be interpreted to harmonize with her writings" (Seventh-day Adventism Renounced" by D.M. Canright, 1914)

    Here it says Mrs. White is divinely inspired and so "validates the above two quotes of hers.

    Show me where Leo Schreven calls: The mark of the beast is Sunday-keeping
    Show me where Leo Schreven says: Sunday-keepers will be condemned

    Last one for now Bob. I am sure there are more. Are you going to deny your "very" "own" "sources" including Ellen G. the Prophets whom God "spoke" directly to?

    Are you a liberal Bob? Or perhaps you can borrow some Catholic theology on salvatoin to worm your way out of this one. You won't of course. You will just keep tap dancing.

    God bless
     
  9. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    Bob,

    After seeing the statements from Ellen G. where she "clearly" "states", contrary to "your" statements that "Sunday worship" "IS" the "MARK OF THE BEAST" and seeing as how you have stated so "many" times that "she" was "divinly inspired" I wonder if you have some sort of theology like papal infallibility where she was not always "divinely inspired". Perhaps ex-Sabaath (i.e. when she speaks on Saturdays :D ) or something like that. Also do you know that Ellen G. White would have said the Billy Graham wears the Mark of the Beast. And his son Franklin also I bet. [​IMG]

    Blessings

    Blessings Bob.
     
  10. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Bob, are Protestants who deny God's command to keep the Sabbath going to hell?

    A simple yes or no will do.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Carson - since you seem to be having trouble with the idea of God's Word having anything to do with the subject of heaven, hell, sin and judgment ... let me help you by using a non-Bible pro-Catholic Source.


    Your own RC publication - "The Faith Explained" (Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II) says very clearly that the non-Catholic - (Bible-based sola scriptura) view of the CAtholic Mass "Should be" that it is one of the purest forms of idolatry. (You know - one of the Ten Commandments "Again")

    Here is what your document says ---

    And the mindless rebuttal to that pro-RC yet devastating statement that is in the form "yes but the Faith Explained IS Catholic so it does not take the non-Catholic view of the Mass" -- is still "pointless". The salient point is that EVEN the Faith Explained admits the conclusion that a non-Catholic view of the mass MUST admit.

    Yet "EVEN THEN" in the case of breaking the Ten Commandments in such a blatant fashion - DO SDAs say that all Catholics who participate in the Mass worshipping bread as though it were God --- "go to hell??" and the answer is "NO"!.

    Do we "still believe" the Holy Spirit is working to convict them of "Sin and righteousness and judgment" in that regard??? "YES"!

    Now - see Carson - almost "no Bible" in that answer - just the teaching of the RCC --- so can you see it "now"??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Carson - here is "yet another example" along the same lines.

    The Bible forbids the use of images - bowed to, their deities prayed to etc in worship as part of the 2nd commandment. (Hebrew numbering for the Hebrew text).

    Yet Catholics will pray to the dead - setup their images in their churches and bow and kiss their statues etc.

    Is that blatant violation of the Ten Commandments "wrong". Yes! Do SDAs say all Catholics go to hell for doing it?? "No".

    "Whatever is not of faith is sin" Rom 14:23

    "To him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4":17

    There is no difference with any one of the Ten Commandments. (Even though you seem to "want" Sabbath to be "different" here).

    So Carson - are you still confused on what the position of the SDA church is regarding violation of "any ONE of the Ten Commandments" or are you willing to look at God's Word as it applies to this subject "yet"?

    More to the point - are you happy with this line of discussion??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Thess -- I love it!

    EWTN's Dr. Carroll DID SAY that Billy Graham would be burned at the stake for preaching his Bible-based Gospel in the RCC's dark ages.

    Ellen White DID NOT say that any Sunday keeping Christians in her day had the mark of the beast OR that Bill Graham "would have it".

    But your ability to "make stuff up on behalf of other denominations" is viewed as the "equivalence" as a published statement by EWTN about Billy Graham.

    Hello!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. BobRyan

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    "The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast." (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)


    The papal statement above on Deis Domini already made that point.

    So also does the Faith Explained below -- (SDAs simiply agree with the RCC on this point)

    It "appears" that Thess wants to slam Ellen White for being in agreement with the RCC. I am not surprised that non-Catholics would want to take that view - but Catholics???

    Hello!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG] Carson.

    I am not Catholic. I am also not SDA. BUT I do worship on the Sabboth(Saturday). The short answer to your question is NO , just because you worship on sunday does not mean you will go to hell. (I am also not Jewish)

    God is merciful, and will forgive you for that the same as He will for murder, or stealing or any other sin. Provided that you repent and turn away and don't do it again!!! [​IMG]

    As for Ellen G. White, if you do a close check on her material, you will find that about 50% of it was plagerized from other books by other people and she claimed it as her own, and gave no one credit for it but herself.

    Now, about the Sabboth. If you can show me anywhere in the bible where God changed it from the last day of the week to the first day of the week (Sat to Sun) then I will start worshiping on Sunday again.

    And by the way, until you have done a Sabboth day wordhip service, you will never know how blessed it can be.

    Tam,

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. thessalonian

    thessalonian
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    Bob,

    You avoid the question once again. Is Sunday Sabaath as stated by Ellen G. White who is divinely inspired, the Mark of the Beast or is she a liar on this point and so a liar in general? Your pointing the finger back at Catholicism may seem like a good way to sluff off your contradiction of her but she said it and so you must believe it if she is in fact divinely inspired. This thread isn't about Catholic teaching on the sabaath. It's about SDA's. This board is about Other Religions. I asked an SDA question. Quit avoiding it.

    Blessings
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Remember in the gospels Jesus was accused several times of breaking the sabbath by those who strictly held to the sabbath.

    Acts 20:7, “On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.”
     
  18. thessalonian

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    Bob,

    Are Protestants who worship on Sunday going to hell.

    Bob's answer:

    #1. No - people are not going to hell because they go to church on Sunday.

    All well and good but is that what the SDA's really teach.

    Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast as taught in SDA theology?

    Bob's answer:
    #2. No - people who go to church on Sunday do not have the Mark of the Beast -

    .Ellen G. White, the "divinely inspired prophetess" of the SDA Church says:

    "The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church." ... "The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the RECEPtION of the MARK." (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.

    Bob claims over the words of Ellen G. White that Sunday keeping is not the Mark. Ellen G. says that it is. Address these issues Bob. This threads for you. Can one with the Mark of the Beast which according to SDA theology (not Bob Ryan) is Sunday Sabaath and keeping of sunday sabaath is reception of that mark, go to heaven? I am just not satisfied with your answer.

    Blessings
     
  19. BobRyan

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    See for yourself --

    http://members.cox.net/jhowardjr/sda/beliefs.html

    And even Ellen White did not claim that the Christians of her day had the Mark of the Beast...(Since she appears to be someone that you "prefer" to quote "instead" of the 27 Fundamental beliefs of Adventism... as if you had some history of actually reading what she wrote)

    As already noted - the Faith Explained (a Catholic document) takes the SAME approach to the CHANGe of the Lord's Day made by the RCC.

    AND (in case this subject is just oo hard for our RC bretheren) I have even included the Faith Explained and its view of idolatry and the Mass - showing that even though that too is a violation of the Ten commandments - STILL the Adventists do not say that those who practice it must all go to hell. (Though you seem to be dying to get them too... Keep trying.. :eek: [​IMG] )

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Ohhhh I get it.. you want to have a debate on the gift of prophecy and NOT talk about SDAs and their teaching on Sunday Worship - yes??

    So when the RCC says IT takes credit of for the change of the Lord's day to Sunday
    (as quoted here on this thread - and yet RC posters remain dumbfounded in their response to that RC document) -- and the Adventist church agrees that they are taking credit for what they actually did

    --- you call that "not" accepting the Adventist POV???

    Are you really reading what is being posted??

    Idolatry in the mass, image worship, editing-changing the Lord's Day -- I have "exposed our teaching on ALL of it" saying that we oppose ALL of it - call ALL of it sin - but do not send all Christians that practice any one of those - to hell (as you seem to "want").

    Shall we keep repeating that point?

    As for who the Beast is - and What the mark of the Catholic Church is as it has placed it on the Ten commandments - are you wanting to have that discussion about history or just to discuss sin and the Ten Commandments?

    Which is it?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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