For Those Who Defend The Actions Of Southern

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are several people on this forum who are supporting/defending the recent actions of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. There are several points I would like to make to ALL of you.

    1. Stop allowing your loyalty to an institution to cloud your spiritual discernment. Good schools make bad decisions, and good schools sometimes go bad. Just because this is "THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY" does not mean that everything they do is right, or defendable.

    2. If another school did what Southern has done, Mohler would be on the air within the week condemning the school. Anyone like to challenge me on this? Go ahead. I know of things other "Christian" schools have done that have resulted in Mohler's public condemnation of them. Some deserved it, others did not. However either way it should be clear that Mohler would not tolerate another "Christian" school hiring a company that celebrates homosexual diversity!!! Period!!


    3. The company Southern has hired (Sodexho) proudly brags about celebrating the HOMOSEXUAL lifestyle in their brochure on diversity (pg 7 at http://www.sodexhousa.com/2004_Annual_Div_Inc_Rpt.pdf ).

    The Bible (our FINAL authority on ALL matters) condemns homosexuality and those who celebrate it (1Cor 6:9-10 Rev 21:8 Rom 1:24-32). This is a company that celebrates what God condemns, NO CHRISTIAN organization should do any business with this company when there are other options open to them. Period.


    4. The school is free to have whatever programs it desires, and to structure their school any way they like. However they are not free to avoid the results of their bad choices. Here Southern has made a bad choice, period. Let's stop trying to pretend they have not.

    ALL Bible believing Christians should, with a loud and united voice, call for a reversal of Southern's actions. If the school refuses to obey Scripture, the Southern Baptist Convention should abandon the school.

    5. Someone, below, made the comment that Southern will be very upset that I no longer trust them (meaning that what I think does not matter to them). Look: The Southern Baptist Seminary needs to worry about God, and their violation of His Word, and not me. They are accountable to God Himself, not me.

    If you don't like what I have said please provide SCRIPTURE to show me where I am wrong. Where does Scripture allow for the mixing of light and darkness? What happened to the, "do not be unequally yoked", principle? Has Mohler and Southern forgotten that? Sounds like they have.

    Again this is a sad day for the Southern Baptist Convention. :(

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  2. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you shop at Wal-Mart?

    Check that, do you buy your clothes from any store?

    Then you are doing business with those that celebrate/promote the homosexual lifestyle.

    Don't jump up on your high-horse, Marty...it ain't that high!
     
  3. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW, have you looked at what other organizations/seminaries/colleges use Sodexho or similar companies?
     
  4. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Don't jump up on your high-horse, Marty...it ain't that high"

    ==Where is your Scripture supporting your position. I am aware of the fact that we can't avoid doing some business with companies that promote sinful activities. What did I say in my post? Let me quote:

    "This is a company that celebrates what God condemns, NO CHRISTIAN organization should do any business with this company when there are other options open to them."

    What did I say? When there are other options open to them. There are Christian companies they could have hired, or they could have left things the way they were. They did not. Instead they have willfully chosen to enter into a CONTRACT with a company that celebrates HOMOSEXUALITY. That is being unequally yoked, that is sin, and we should call it what it is.

    If calling sin, sin is a high horse....then you bet I am jumping on my high horse.

    Again, where is your Scripture?

    In Christ,
    Martin.

    ps...no I have not checked to see if other schools use this company. But that is a good idea that I have not thought about. O, btw, just because others are doing it does not make it right.
     
  5. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin

    WHEW! This is a painful happening ... I won't quote scripture. . . . But, I hope it will be agreed with ...
     
  6. williemakeit

    williemakeit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey, I shop at Wal-Mart, and am even a share holder. Do not drag them into this mess. [​IMG]
     
  7. bobbyd

    bobbyd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, i wish this whole discussion would end, seeing how people are getting attacked personally for their point of view.

    Southern made their decision, just like every other decision made over recent years that were for the "betterment of theological education", we can pray for God's will to be done...and that's it.

    I'm still thankful for my education there, even though i don't like a lot of decisions that have been made by the administration, and i plan to make this my last post on this topic.
     
  8. poodle78

    poodle78
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2004
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    0
    We all know something is going to be said about this in Nashville in June. Is anyone planning to go? :confused:
     
  9. The Shogun

    The Shogun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gentlemen:

    This is - or should be - a non-issue. Why you ask... please stay with me.

    1) If outsourcing of functions is a bad thing -- then all the SBC seminaries have to kick LifeWay off of their campuses -- since their bookstores are outsourced to LifeWay. In fact, in recent magazine of higher education over 65% of all higher education institutions oursource 2 or more of their funtions (maintenance, housekeeping, bookstore, cafeteria, security, etc..)

    2) If an SBC institution cannot do business with a firm that has a diversity policy -- then what you are saying is that the SBC institution cannot do business with a national company at all because many states makes "diversity" something that the company is legally obligated to. Following this logic, it would be tough to even by toilet paper or cleaning supplies (remember Proctor and Gamble?)

    3) To criticize the company of choice is hypocritical. The Walmart statement was a good point -- because Walmart has the same policy. But did you know that Sodexho owns Marriott? Have you ever stayed in a Courtyard or Farfield Inn..etc.... see what I mean - the "non-Christian" argument is ridiculous.

    4) Another reason that it is ridiculous is that all the 'hourly' workers at seminaries are not Christian. By law, they cannot be asked that question -- the seminaries have some positions (usually director level and up) in which the government allows discrimination on the grounds that the seminary is a 'church' in the government's eyes.

    5) If this had not been Southern, the issue would have passed by unoticed. Why? Because Sodexho already does maintenance for Samford and does dining services for Liberty University. In Kentucky, Aramark (Sodexho's leading national competitor) does the maintenance at Cumberland college -- yet another Baptist state college.

    6) The false information going around is unbelievable. All the students working part-time were offered opportunities to contnue working. The motive for the the change was not financially motivated -- it was to get expertise. If you needed heart surgery -- I bet you'd go the best hospital, and not worry about the hospital's diversity poicy.

    There is plenty more that could be said to those who evidently have never lived in the 'real world'....... but the bottom line is that this is a non-issue and will not be given a second thought by anyone in the SBC who knows anything about anything...
     
  10. RandR

    RandR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    0
    All good arguments in favor of dropping the discussion.

    What just doesn't sit well with me personally is that this is exactly the type of corporate partnership that, were it this a "moderate" school, would have more than likley found itself the subject of a lengthy article on Dr. Mohler's blog. Regardless of the types of reasonable arguments that many of you make.
     
  11. The Shogun

    The Shogun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    RandR...

    We agree about dropping the discussion ....

    We disagree that Mohler would have made this an issue -- precisely because if he had wanted to do that -- there have been too many oppotunities for him to have done so (two of opportunites mentioned - Samford and Cumberland -- the Proctor and Gamble debate,etc...) -----> PLUS

    (and here's a biggie) -- did anyone mention that BAYLOR outsources all of its facilities management to Aramark, which is a national firm with a similar diversity policy...

    Plain and simple -- many, many schools do this sort of thing in order to use their resources more wisely....
     
  12. The Shogun

    The Shogun
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Everyone ....

    We do need to take note that Marty has gotten quiet on this issue......since I mentioned Liberty......

    Marty forgot to mention in his ranting of a post that that Sodexho does the dining services at Liberty....(the school where Marty happens to be a student)
     
  13. williemakeit

    williemakeit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Sorry. Forgive me.
     
  14. NateT

    NateT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not only that, but in the letter sent out by Dr. Mohler, he mentions that other similar institutions have used the services of Sodexho and are pleased with them.
     
  15. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I think the Shogun has put an end to this debate.
     
  16. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is - or should be - a non-issue. Why you ask... please stay with me.

    ==Why is disobeying Scripture a "non-issue"?

    1) If outsourcing of functions is a bad thing -- then all the SBC seminaries have to kick LifeWay off of their campuses -- since their bookstores are outsourced to LifeWay.

    ==Outsourcing functions is not a bad thing, it is bad when they outsource to a company that celebrates what God condemns (when there are other options).


    2) If an SBC institution cannot do business with a firm that has a diversity policy -- then what you are saying is that the SBC institution cannot do business with a national company at all

    ==Strawman alert! There are other companies that Southern (and Liberty) could outsource this contract to. However both have outsourced this to a company that not only has a diversity policy, but a company that celebrates homosexuality (a sin that God condemns).


    3) To criticize the company of choice is hypocritical.

    ==When any school wilfully contracts to a company that celebrates what God condemns (when other options are open to them), to not criticize them is compromise.


    The Walmart statement was a good point -- because Walmart has the same policy. But did you know that Sodexho owns Marriott? Have you ever stayed in a Courtyard or Farfield Inn..etc.... see what I mean - the "non-Christian" argument is ridiculous.

    ==Individuals are not Christian seminaries contracting out to Walmart or Marriott. Southern has entered into a contract, they are yoked, with a company that celebrates what God condemns.


    Sodexho already does maintenance for Samford and does dining services for Liberty University.

    ==Both schools, like Southern, are compromising their Biblical standards and making poor moral judgments.


    Look for reasons to obey Scripture...
     
  17. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    We do need to take note that Marty has gotten quiet on this issue......since I mentioned Liberty......

    ==Martin, not Marty, has been at work all day and has just now checked this board. So Martin has not "gotten quiet" at all.


    Marty forgot to mention in his ranting of a post that that Sodexho does the dining services at Liberty....(the school where Marty happens to be a student)

    ==Martin, not Marty, was not aware of that fact. I am willing to come down just as hard on Liberty as on Southern.

    Martin.

    [ March 25, 2005, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Martin ]
     
  18. RandR

    RandR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    0
    Grayhound,

    Just for the sake of beating a dead horse. The Shogun's "everybody else does it" argument is really not all that strong. And incidentally, not likely an argument that Al Mohler would ever use himself. (And I'll be curious to know what he'll think of such an argument when he has teenagers.)

    Now...My personal opinion is that I don't personally care WHO SBTS--or Liberty, or Cumberland, or Baylor--uses to do its maintenance. Or that they outsource it.

    I still have a great deal of respect for Al Mohler. I think he is one of the smarter (and most articulate by a mile) or our agency heads. The Shogun is right that Al hasn't opined about other colleges. I stand partially corrected. But I will submit to you that until this week, he had no idea what school used which company and what any of their policies are. I'd also bet good money that I don't posses that he didn't have a clue about Sodexho's gay-inclusive policies until the stupid BCE story.

    But I will continue to insist that there is a note of irony in the situation, and in the lack of any "official" response to the outing (pun intended) of their new maintenance company.
     
  19. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Well, I think the Shogun has put an end to this debate."

    ==By what Scriptural principle?

    I see alot of people being critical of what I have said, however I see NOBODY providing any BIBLICAL support for their position. I have replied to Shogun's remarks (all of them) and I have set the record straight about Liberty.

    Martin.
     
  20. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is an official statement necessary?

    They are using a company to provide a service. Are we only to use Christian companies for services??
    Do we need to hire Christian electricians when we CONTRACT with them to fix the power?
    Do we need to find a Christian water company when we CONTRACT with them to provide water to the campus?

    There is no need to provide a response because it is only blown out of proportion by people on here who have nothing better to do than complain about what other people are doing.

    Marty, I agree that homosexuality is condemned by Scripture. I bet everyone at SBTS does as well. But, it also does not say that we are to not do any business with non-Christians and that we cannot outsource to non-Christian companies.
    I think your heart is in the right place, but your mind does not see all the inconsistencies of what you are saying.
     

Share This Page

Loading...