Forced RFID Chipping of Students

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Don, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. Don

    Don
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  2. poncho

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    Welcome to the USSA Don.
     
  3. billwald

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    Chipping ID cards is NOT chipping students.
     
  4. Don

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    Requiring students to have chipped cards on them at all times, bill. Might as well be chipped.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Bill is right on this one. Its not the same.
     
  6. Don

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    All right; I'll grant you that. So what's the opinion about requiring students to carry chipped cards for monitoring purposes?
     
  7. Squire Robertsson

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    No problems if the requirement is limited to school grounds and school activities (e.g. away games for athletes and others supporting them, not students in the bleachers).
     
  8. Gina B

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    I love this idea, with the exception of them taking the cards home.

    It would be more work, but it's not unreasonable that they would leave them at the school with their first-hour teacher and receive them as they are ready to enter the classroom.

    There ARE kids, believe it or not, who ditch school. This puts them at risk of being hit by cars while crossing the street, abducted, etc.. Some take off for a short time to obtain drugs or have an alcoholic drink. It would be beautiful to have chipped cards like this to help keep everyone safe.

    The school IS legally responsible for the kids that are under their care. However, it is extremely difficult for a large school to keep track of everyone and students so inclined will always find a way to get out.

    It can also help keep them safe in school. If a student is beat up in a bathroom or locker room or falls ill or is somehow injured, wouldn't it be great if the school could, upon receiving notice from the teacher that so-and-so is absent from that class or left to use the RR and didn't return, simply check the system and determine that the student is safe and sound?

    Oh, and too bad. We are ALL just a number to at least one group in our lives, most of us even more so. If you have a social security card, you're a number. If you have a driver's license, you're a number. If you have a job, you likely are a number. If you have insurance, you likely are a number. If you go to the store and stand in line, you are a number to the cashier, maybe number three. Maybe number five.

    And when you die, you'll be number whatever in that cemetery plot.

    Nobody's so big and wonderful that everyone in the world must know them by the mere mention of their name. Save that one for our heavenly Father. He knows, even without the name. That's good enough.Though I do kinda wonder how many names were invented before my name/word came to be. LOL Was it number 5 million, or dare I hope it was closer to the hundreds? :smilewinkgrin:

    Hrm. Watch us get to heaven and hear "hey! there's number 4,234,529,007 in my creation! Bwah ha ha ha!
     
  9. Don

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    So would it be okay to use these to enforce truancy laws?
     
  10. Berean

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    Have no objections to volunteer, but forced; NO
     
  11. targus

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    Kids that want to ditch will ditch chip card or no chip card.

    Hand you card off to a friend that is in the same classes and you are out the door. No problem.
     
  12. Gina B

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    Not exactly. We have to take role call at the beginning of each class. Sometimes we take it at the end too, depending on how we feel. If a teacher physically sees an absent student and reports it and they have a card, it will quickly become obvious if that student and card are together.

    Think of a school with three thousand students. If just 50 decide to ditch here and there through the day and there are no cards, how much time and effort must be spent in sweeping the school to locate the student? The answer is A LOT!

    We've had students go to lunch and get hit by cars. There are also plenty of people who just don't stop after they hit someone. It's regular news out here. It would definitely be good for both ditching AND for security. Student goes to lunch, was there earlier, isn't there later, they know to look and they know right away if the card isn't with the student because they can ping the card.

    We had the fire alarms go off (not a drill) IN BETWEEN classes the other day. That can be a real mess. I had two students missing, they located one right away and had to run about quickly and do all they could to find the missing student (and any other ones, I don't know if I was the only one holding up red or not) to make sure that person was safe. What if there had been a substitute there that didn't know the students? He/she would not have been able to identify ANYONE who belonged in the class and gather them in their safe spot, right? How much easier would having those cards make such a situation?

    I don't understand why people find this so disturbing. It is a safety measure for your child. For my child. For other people's children. I'd bet most anything that if a parent who disagrees with the cards ended up with their child unable to be located during a fire or bomb threat or had their child hit by a car, they'd be first in line to say these are a good idea.

    Bottom line - we want kids to be safe. This helps them be safe and protected in a reasonable way.

    What's the real issue here? People aren't upset that their kids are being kept more safe. They're upset about something else. What is that something else?
     
  13. billwald

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    Around here state school money is distributed on the basis of the local public school population. I don't know if day to day numbers matter.
     
  14. Don

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    So--would you be okay with using this technology for truancy enforcement?
     
  15. Gina B

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    Don, I would agree to it being used in combination with what is already in place...visual monitoring. Taking role. The cards are double security and cannot/should not be solely relied on for taking attendance.

    I think some are under the false impression that using them for truancy reporting means officers or school officials will be driving around towns and cities while shooting tracking beams every 70 feet under the slight chance that the student who is guilty of truancy just happens to have their card on them. That's not the case. The cards are tracked on school property.
     
  16. Don

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    Currently, yes. But what's wrong with expanding it to include off-campus tracking? If the roll call indicates the student isn't where they should be, does the card indicate if the student is off-campus? If so, does it indicate where off-campus?

    Yes, most students will leave their cards in their lockers, with another student, or wherever; never underestimate the ingenuity of our youth. But why shouldn't we at least attempt to use these cards to decrease truancy, for the same exact reasons you've posted?

    Are you familiar with the Philadelphia school that gave its students laptops a few years back? And then used pre-loaded software to activate the webcams and monitor students' (and their families) behavior? Why would that be wrong?
     
  17. Gina B

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    Yes Don, I'm familiar with that. It was misused and that was very wrong. It was meant to keep track of the laptops, which was technically a great idea, but the misuse was very wrong. A great way for parents to get around that is to get kids their own laptops, but many cannot afford it. I know we can't, but so many assignments require a computer! We lucked out in that my one daughter won a Mac Book Air in a contest at a mall. :thumbs:

    But...I still think that's just part of the risk one takes if they can't afford modern requirements for school and still send their children. It's just what it is. The school has a right to do what they must to prevent theft, and some of this stuff is expensive!

    No, I do not agree with using the cards to track truant students outside of school. Yes, students are smart and it doesn't require a lot of brains to hand the card to another student, stick it by something else the emits waves, put it in a metal box, or wrap/coat it in something that interferes with radio waves. That's why I said it is still important for it to work in conjunction, in the school, with visual monitoring and use both the teachers taking role, the cards being kept in one place and claimed at the beginning of the day, and if a student is missing or doesn't return from having been given a pass to the RR or their locker, the card will help determine that the kid is still on the property and safe.

    No way do I agree with using it outside of school unless it is agreed to by the parents or guardians with a chronically truant student, but I don't see how that would even be logical if the cards are kept at school like they should be to prevent misuse and because a student isn't going to carry it around while they're ditching.

    I think it would be wrong outside of school, without parental permission, because if they are not on school property, they are still under the authority of their parents and/or they have reached 18 and it would be an invasion of privacy. On more of a side note, I do not agree with truancy laws in the first place. If a teenager doesn't want to be in school, I feel they should be allowed to drop out. When you have even one student in a class who despises being there, it is unfair to the other students and to the teacher because the one (and usually more per class depending on school size) who do not wish to be there will disrupt the class and make it hard for those who WANT to be there to have a decent learning environment.

    If it must be a law that they cannot drop out, another type of alternative school should be in place. There are alternative schools, but sometimes you get great kids in there too...they just learn better in a non-typical environment. Sometimes, straight A students choose the district's alternative school simply because they have a tough time fitting into the mainstream system.

    If the law that teens must stay in school under threat of jail and/or fines to their PARENTS (also very wrong imo) then a totally separate school should be made for them. Or...just change the law. Right now, there are plenty of professionals that lost their jobs and are working minimum wage jobs. Let the students who don't want to go to school suffer the natural consequences of their actions in life. They can learn early that they have their own choices and that choices have consequences, like not being able to get a job or having a harder time later when they try to fix their wrong-doing. I won't call it a mistake because a mistake implies it was an accident or misunderstanding, and they know quite well what they're doing when they drop out.
     
  18. Don

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    First: what about those kids that don't want to carry the cards, or their parents don't want want them to carry the cards, whether it be for religious or personal privacy or other reasons? Do you, and how do you make exceptions for them?

    Second, once this program is proven to be successful, how do you keep someone from coming along and saying "look how successful it was; it'll work in other areas, too"?

    Third, your comments about truancy laws. One or two people may not like it; but a majority either helped pass them, or have done nothing about them, thereby giving implicit approval of them. So as long as truancy laws exist, you're going to find people trying to find ways to more efficiently and effectively enforce these laws. See comment #2.

    As for setting up new schools to address the kids that don't want to be there--you've got the NEA and a whole lot of others that are vehemently opposed to charter schools and the other alternatives that currently exist. And then you have the problem that such solutions are cost-prohibitive to most parents (although they're really not, but the folks that prefer the public school status quo have better marketing people); so you find a lot of people that don't see any alternatives, so they just let the system continue as it is.

    How about this? I don't think you need the cards. I think you need better enforcement of the existing rules. If you report a kid as truant more than three times, what's the punishment for that kid? How about we teach them to be accountable, rather than make all the kids be treated like criminals and have to carry proper identification and be electronically tracked?

    Gina, it sounds like a reasonable "limited" solution; but such things, like making the Jews wear a gold star, always start out sounding reasonable.

    How do you boil a frog?
     
  19. Don

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    Oh, and one more thing: if you want something to be a societal "norm", isn't it better to start teaching them at an early age that it's "normal"? Thus, why we have homosexual curricula in kindergartens and elementary schools?

    And when they're older, all they'll know is "it's always been this way."
     
  20. menageriekeeper

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    Ok, so when the kids forget their cards, leave them in their locker instead of wearing them (wasting valuable classroom time making certain everyone has their cards), refuse to take them home (because the ENTIRE purpose of this exercise was to slow down monetary losses from "truancy"), take them home and leave them home, flush them just because they can, etc, etc, etc:

    Are you going to support placing a chip under a student's skin so it can't be lost??

    No way Gina! I'm not accepting something like this EVER for my kid. If the kids can't be trusted to move from class room to class room without escaping, let them stay in one and let the teachers move. School is already way to much like prison. We don't need it to be worse.
     

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