Forgiveness/ Unforgiveness

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by drfuss, May 11, 2006.

  1. drfuss

    drfuss
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    Matthew 6: 14,15. (NIV)
    For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Apparently if a christian holds a grudge against another and refuses to forgive them, the christian's sins will not be forgiven by God. Can an unforgiving Christian get to heaven without their sins being forgiven?
     
  2. MRCoon

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    It is hard for a Christain to ask Christ to forgive their sins when they are holding a grudge to another person...so obviously God can't forgive them if they are willingly and knowingly participating in sin. This seeking 'forgiveness of sins' (! JOhn 1:9) has little to do with our "sin that condemned' us to hell and required Jesus' death on the Cross. This sinning after we are saved is different because Jesus only needed to die once...not everytime we sin (Romans 5-7). I believe the Christian will stand accountable for our Christian Walk and if we walked in sin before going to heaven we will be rewarded (judged) accordingly. And if we fail to seek God's forgiveness it is just a showing of our heart condition...for or against God's leading.
     
  3. Jacob

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    Yes, if a person asks us for forgiveness and we refuse that is indicative that we are truly not a Christian.
     
  4. MRCoon

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    I wouldn't say truly not a Christian but definitely not acting or living as a Christian should.
     
  5. drfuss

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    MRCoon writes:
    "This seeking 'forgiveness of sins' (! JOhn 1:9) has little to do with our "sin that condemned' us to hell and required Jesus' death on the Cross. This sinning after we are saved is different because Jesus only needed to die once...not everytime we sin (Romans 5-7)."

    Are you saying that there could be two types of sins: those sins Jesus died for, and unforgiven sins because the christian would not forgive?

    Can a christian get to heaven and not be forgiven by God of all his sins?
     
  6. Jacob

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    Are you suggesting all this verse is doing is giving another example of a sin that could have put us in Hell if Jesus hadn't died for the Chrsitians sin?
     
  7. Jacob

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    I wouldn't say truly not a Christian but definitely not acting or living as a Christian should. </font>[/QUOTE]My key point was "IF the person asks forgiveness". In the same pattern as a saved sinner - we're forgiven if we repent. God forgives if there is repentance and he expects us to do the same.
     
  8. MRCoon

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    Ok Jesus died for our sins period...our sins of past, present and future...so I'm saying that His sacrifice covered us once and for all so this sacrifice gives us access to heaven and eternal life. But while Jesus' sacrifice forgives us our sins it doesn't forget our sins until we confess and ask forgiveness for our sins (and yes it should be a daily thing on our part) after this then God parts our sins away from him (as far as the East is from the West).

    The Bible does not say we need to repent, or confess sins for salvation...it says we must call upon him to be saved and we must believe. Forgiveness of sins was done once on the cross but we need to repent everytime we sin to maintain our good relationship/communication with God. Often times I hear people say salvation is an act of confessing our sins God will save us or repenting of our sins to be saved...this is making us a part of salvation and we are not a part of it we are recipients of salvation. Confession and forgiveness on our part comes in our daily Christian walk and our strive for closer communion with God.

    I liken it to this: With my kids if one does something wrong and hides behind his mother while I may not give them what they deserve their wrong doing does strain our communication and relationship but when my kids apologize or repent of their wrongdoing then our relationship is better...while God is not at our human level this is a way for a human understanding. So when I sin and God wants to punish me for my sin he sees Jesus standing in front of me taking my punishment (as he did on the cross) but it doesn't give me the right to do as I please...because when God hears my requests or Jesus speaks of me (as an intercessor) God is bothered by my sin and it ruins our relationship...now when I apologize (or repent) of my sins then my relationship with God is imporved/improving. Again I don't mean to belittle God's forgiveness by comparing it to my situation asa father but I think it is a good example that we can esily understand.
     
  9. drfuss

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    Jacob writes:
    My key point was "IF the person asks forgiveness". In the same pattern as a saved sinner - we're forgiven if we repent. God forgives if there is repentance and he expects us to do the same.

    But if we don't forgive, God will not forgive.
    (see initial post)

    I have heard christians say I cannot forgive that person for what he did years ago.
    Should we ask forgiveness for our unforgiveness?

    Can a christian get to heaven and not be forgiven by God of all his sins?
     
  10. MRCoon

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    Are you suggesting all this verse is doing is giving another example of a sin that could have put us in Hell if Jesus hadn't died for the Chrsitians sin? </font>[/QUOTE]No I'm saying that this confession of sin in I John 1:9 is asking for repenting and seeking forgiveness of sin after we are saved...not for salvation. See my post above for clarification (I think ;) )
     
  11. MRCoon

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    I thought I answered this but let me try this.

    God has all ready forgiven all of our sin if we believe in what Christ did on the cross...period!

    But he will judge us and reward us for the sins that we have committed after salvation. Just because we are in the family and can not be removed or lose our eternal life we can lose our relationship/communication with God and while we will still get into heaven we will not have crowns (or as many) to cast at His feet.
     
  12. MRCoon

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    I think God expects us to forgive even if (or rather especially if) the other person doesn't seek repentance or will not seek to clear the bad relationship. The best thing about what Jesus did on the cross was that we didn't or don't have to do anything. We need only believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven...we don't have to repent or seek forgiveness or prstrate ourselves at His feet...nothing just believe Jesus is the only way...now a person that truly believes this will find themselves prostrate at Jesus' feet because they will realize their unworthiness for such a gift. God forgave us already based on what Jesus did whether we seek forgiveness or not but our relationship will be strained and our blessings will be limited because we will not be in good communication with God because of our sin, but if we confess our sins he will forgive us and seperate (forget) our sin so as not to interfere with our father-child relationship.
     
  13. donnA

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    If the person is a christian, then they will get to heaven.
     
  14. MRCoon

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    You of course mean if the person is a Believer. Christian or not...right?! ;)

    Christian = Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike. -or- Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

    We may be shocked to find a few people in heaven who were un-Christlike here on earth.
     
  15. lgpruitt

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    I think if a person is a believer, someone that has been saved by the Grace of God and His son dying for us on the cross....then it will be very hard for that person to ask for forgiveness until they have truly forgiven the person(s) that has sinned against them. Forgiving someone eats at you night and day....it doesn't let you rest. I feel God intended it to be this way for those of us that are "believers" or "Christian"....whatever term you want to use.
    The Holy Spirit works within us to convict us of our sin....our nonforgivenss of someone else. It is such a relief and release once we reach a forgiveness state with this person or persons. "let go and let God".....
    Can we be forgiven? The bible does say to forgive others so that he may fogive our sins. Do not let the sun set on your anger.....
    And, I do my very best to take this to heart. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. drfuss

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    Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful responses to my question. However, I am not sure that I got a specific yes or no answer.

    A christian who does not forgive another person for sinning against them, will not be forgiven of his sins by God. (Matt. 6:15) If that person dies with unforgiven sins, will that person go to heaven even though he was a christian?

    Will God let a person with unforgiven sins into heaven? Yes or NO?
     
  17. lgpruitt

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    I think that person will go to heaven but will be held accoutable before God of his unforgiving nature toward a person or persons. If we are children of God, it is our more "Christ-like" actions that forgive the sin(s) of others. If we don't do that...I don't see that seperating us from God....we will be held accountable.
    That is my take...and the take I've gotten from my preacher. I've had a few major things to forgive of others in the past few years and it's taken some time...but when it hit me that God sent his son to fogive all of our sins...and that is what he wants of us....then it made my job as the forgiver so much easier. [​IMG]
    Once the forgiving has occurred....life seems so much sweeter and God now bears my load. How awesome is that?!?!
     
  18. James_Newman

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    A believer who has all his sins covered by the blood may nevertheless find himself in trouble at the judgment seat of Christ. They may even miss the thousand year kingdom of God on this earth alltogether, yet still be saved eternally.
     
  19. pinoybaptist

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    Ran back to my Bible and went and see if Jonah ever forgave the men of Nineveh and rejoiced that they repented, or if I missed something in Samson's story and he actually forgave the Philistines.
    Nope.
    Joshua did not forgive, else the Bible would have recorded it, and Samson....well, he killed the Philistines instead.
    Guess they're not going to be in heaven.

    Forgiveness does not have to be a two-way street. One can forgive another without waiting for the other to approach and ask for forgiveness.
    That is the New Testament way.
    Bearing a grudge against someone else hinders one's walk, and puts a barrier between you and God's blessings.

    Ever tried even saying blessing with the object of your grudge around ? Or shaking the brethren's hands while singing at the end of the service ?

    The quality of being forgiving is an integral part of a gracious life.

    Forgetting....now, that's another thing.
     
  20. mima

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    This statement would appear to be wrong. "But he will judge us and reward us for the sins that we have committed after salvation." If a born-again believer ever stands judgment for any sin, then Jesus himself did not pay the penalty for that sin. Otherwise we have two payments for the same sin!!! How outrageous!!!! NO. The born-again believer had been forgiven of all sins. "Can an unforgiving Christian get to heaven without their sins being forgiven"? Now the answer to this question of course is no, the reason being that we are all going to be changed in the twinkling of an eye, changed from what to what? Change from being a mortal who sins to in the immortal who does not sin.
    The judgment that a Christian faces at the bema the seat of Christ is one of rewards. And these rewards(crowns) will be forgiven for what we have done right not any sins that we might or might not have committed.
    The question of Christ's forgiveness is all encompassing it is either complete or incomplete, total or partial, and if either incomplete or partial did we have an insufficient Christ and you and I must help him make up the difference. Many believe this help can be offered in the form of doing pentance, better behavior, more gifts and tithes, more, more, always more of something. When what we really need is a clear and better understanding of the totality of Christ work on the cross.
     

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