Former Pastor needs Help

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gershom, Jun 22, 2008.

  1. Gershom

    Gershom
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    From a blog of a former Baptist pastor:

    How do you convince an old friend that he is going down the wrong path?
     
  2. Crabtownboy

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    I agree with the first century Christians. I had to stop and think about the first two:

    But then I remember Timothy and that faith without works is dead. If there are no works there really is no faith.

    You might want to duck ... there are those here who will not like at all what you said. :laugh:

    I'll duck now.:tonofbricks:
     
  3. Gershom

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    The OP is a quote, not my words!
     
  4. Gershom

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    I would say you don't believe the Bible. Scripture is clear that we are saved by grace. The thief on the cross was saved by grace. Paul preached the same message.

    I would say you're confused that about the inspired Word of God as to its authority, and that it is not the mere words of man, but God Himself, that the word of the apostles in the letters were penned by men moved by the Holy Ghost, same as the words of Jesus were penned by men of God moved by the Holy Ghost.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    There is a big problem here. Pray and fast.
     
  6. JustChristian

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    Agreed. However, presumably these words captured accurately what actually happened and what actually was said before, during, and after the ministry o9f Jesus. In other words, it's just as if we were there when they were said. If Jesus, Paul, James and John (etc.) were standing in front of you right now and were talking to you face to face, wouldn't you pay more attention to the words of the Son of God?
     
  7. Tom Bryant

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    But they're not and His Word is in front of us and we are to pay attention to all of them because they do accurately capture "what actually happened and what was actually said before during and after the ministry of Jesus."
     
  8. skypair

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    First, I notice he is a "former pastor." Perhaps his sin has found him out, already?

    Second, I would note that almost as soon as the original apostles passed, the church was said to have "left your first love." (Rev 2:1) I take this very seriously. They were beginning to build the foundations of the works-based RCC (read about the Galations in particular). Early on they rejected the "Nicolaitan"/political hierarchy aspects but we see that wasn't long in coming (Rev 2:15).

    But finally I would try to explain to him the soul-spirit-body progression of salvation. The soul is redeemed instantly, eternally and irreversibly upon belief and repentance NEVER to be lost.

    The part he seems to notice is the redemption of the spirit, which is the part of us (mind, emotions, will) that questions "tests" our salvation every day. The spirit is being saved PROGRESSIVELY and is often "lost" and "regained" through repentance 2Pet 1:4-9 whereby we can "escape the corruption of this world" and not "forget that our old sins were forgiven." That is because SANCTIFICATION is not a straight line but a period of growth and testing. But fortunately, the salvation of the spirit refers to Christ and the Holy Spirit saving us from the world day-by-day. In the end, though, the Spirit delivers us "perfect" in our spirit to Christ's Bema, Phil 1:6, just as He will also deliver the body, 3:21.

    I might add that neither Armenians nor Calvinists (he appears to be one or the other) have a proper perspective of this progression of salvation but it is the key to understanding how scripture can appear to say we lose our salvation and in the next breath say that we are saved eternally.

    skypair
     
    #8 skypair, Jun 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2008
  9. Gershom

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    But according to the Bible, the words are from God and are His, even the words Jesus spoke (John 17:8). So when I look at Scripture, I see it all as God's Word, spoken through apostles, prophets, and even Jesus Himself.
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

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    the Former pastor is right. But the questions comes into play are works a result of salvation or an intergral part of it being attained?
     
  11. Rubato 1

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    Unfortunately, you probably won't. Love him. Be careful interacting with him.


    A friend who I enjoyed hearing preach last Christmas recently decided to believe all kinds of nonsense. I thought about trying to talk to him, reason with him. But since he knows what I know, but chooses to misinterpret the verses I know and love, I think I'll just have to avoid him from now on. :tear:
     
  12. Rubato 1

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    It doesn't matter who says that 'faith w/o works is dead' means that works are an ingredient of faith; they are wrong. Faith results in works; otherwise it was not true faith. Is that hard to understand? Faith is a descision that is evidenced by works, not formed or shaped by works.

    Just like going to Walmart. Going is not the decision. Going is the result of the decision. If you do not go, it is reasonable to assume that you never decided to go.
     
  13. JustChristian

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    If you believe that the Bible is inerrant then reading it is the same as having these persons talk to you.
     
  14. Born_in_Crewe

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    I was thinking about this earlier when I read the post originally.

    My view is that if you have true faith, then good works will result from it. However, it is not the works which save us, but our faith. There are many who do good works but do not have any faith and are thus unsaved.
     

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