Free choice to choose...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by tinytim, May 31, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't believe it.. I am actually starting a C/A thread!:laugh:
    I had always said I would never do it... but I am curious...

    This is too all you free willers out there:

    What Bible verses do you use to prove that we have the freedom to choose Christ or reject him?

    Calvinists can put give their input also...
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's the first, IMHO.

    Gen. 2
    9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


    16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
     
  3. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deut 30:14-19 -- "But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. [Where have we heard that before?? Rom 10:9-10!] 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways ... I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,..."

    I mean, c'mon tiny. Is this a "trick question?" Or do you really not know?? :tear:

    skypair
     
    #3 skypair, May 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2007
  4. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    Free will

    We are going to follow the evil desires of our flesh that is what we do.

    Only through Jesus words which are Spirit and they are life we are given only two paths.

    Either believe and follow Jesus which leads to Life or walk away which leads to destruction.

    Just like the young rich ruler was given these same paths, he choose to walk away.

    The few who find this path are the messenger, you will have opposition.

    Through the few there will be a number like the sands of the seashore saved.
     
  5. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    With all due respects, Adam is the only one to whom God gave free will, and he blew it for all of us, as you can see. Besides, the tree spoken of is not necessarily Christ.
     
  6. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim this is just from a few minutes and picking a couple of key words.
    Whosoever
    Jn3:15,16, Lk12:8,Mt10:32,Jn11:26,12:46,Acts2:21,10:43,13:26,Rom10:13,1Jn4:15,5:1Rev22:17
    Call Mt2:17,9:13,Lk5:32
    anyman Rev3:201Jn5:13
    resist Acts7:51,Rom13:2,Tit3:8
    Choose Josh 24:15

    Truth be told there are many very good books defending free will or defending TULIP both showing much scripture to back them up.I do know this ,it is God who seeks us out and the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin.I personally feel that a preponderance of the evidence leans towrd free will but then part of that could be just my gut or personal conviction.I* am afraid this is one of those questions we will get the final authoratative answer to when we arrive in heaven.

    I can work with anyone who sticks with the fundamentals,is evangelistic,and mission minded. I do get irritated when anyone takesCalvinism to dogmatic lengths. Hope this helps.:godisgood:
     
  7. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW; I am not a Freewiller, I am an Old Regular Baptist. :)

    He died for all but we must believe to receive that blood applied to our soul and wash away our sins

    1 Timothy,
    chapter5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    6: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    7: Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in

    faith and verity.

    8: I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting

    2Cr 5:15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
     
    #7 Brother Bob, May 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2007
  8. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim, are you surprised by any of the answers yet?
     
  9. jonnycool

    jonnycool
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amy states straight away that we are free and under law. This is a contradiction Tim.

    And why did He say: "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." Gen 3:22. ? :)

    God is Sovereign.

    john.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    And these words were spoken to Israel who are already called by God's name, whom God already set aside unto Himself.

    In other words, these are inclusive of all Israel, and exclusive of all those who are not Israel, and therefore not God's.

    So, tell us, O Learned One, what happens to those who are not Israel and therefore not already of Jehovah, as a nation ?

    Where is the command for them to choose Jehovah ?
     
  11. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    Choose

    This is when Jesus comes in presents the choice between life and death to the world.

    Believe in me and be saved, or not and be condemned

    So choose Jesus and have life, life abundant.
     
  12. jonnycool

    jonnycool
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    skypair. :)


    Did they hear sykpair? Dt 29:4 But to this day the LORD has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.

    Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, " `though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

    JN 12:39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40 "He has

    blinded their eyes

    deadened their hearts

    so they can neither see with their eyes

    nor understand with their hearts

    nor turn--and I would heal them."

    JN 12:41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him.

    Just like we do. :)

    JN 12:39 For this reason they could not believe

    they could not believe
    they could not believe
    they could not believe

    Believe.

    john.
     
  13. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hear

    You gave scripture as to why they could not believe .

    It is really simple. God has hidden the truth to wise and learned and revealed it to little children

    When we come to Jesus we must come to Him as a child, not wise in our own eyes.
     
  14. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    pinoy,

    Yes, these words were said to the children of Israel -- individually, not as a nation. And the PROOF is that Paul used the same words in Rom 10:9-10 to speak to each and every person who would be saved!

    And here's the COMMAND again since you missed it -- "I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways..." Today Christ is the "Way." Do you want to love the Lord?? Do you want to know the way?" CHOOSE CHRIST!!

    skypair
     
    #14 skypair, May 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2007
  15. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    "To this day" (Deut 29), no eyes? New day (Deut 30) "Choose life!"

    Now this would make me worry if I was you! The first thing I would do if I was you is ask myself, "Do I understand these parables that Jesus said were not given to unbelievers?"

    And then I would ask myself if I understand the "mysteries" --- because believers are supposed to understand them (1Cor 2:6) but you clearly don't understand regeneration -- the "mystery of God in us." See, you think you have it before you even believe! That would scare me half to death if I believed what you did on this! Know why I say that? Cause I'd have to ask myself (if I was you), "How come I didn't believe the very instant the gospel was presented to me?? What kept me -- 'born again,' elect of God -- from starting to live a holy life from the first day that I entered church??"

    skypair
     
    #15 skypair, May 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2007
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the NT economy, isn't the tree of life, the cross?

    Through the tree of life, eternal life was obtained. Today, eternal life is obtained through Jesus. You don't see the similarity?
     
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    When did I say we are free and under the law??

    As to the why in your question.....God did not want Adam to live forever in a fallen state.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't know about that, to be honest. Let's see what others have to say.
     
  19. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    No, O Learned One, that is not what I understand, Honorable Old Man. I do not see the Lord speaking to Israel individually. The speaker spoke to the whole nation gathered before him, he did not call each Israelite aside to his tent. (Talk of twisting Scripture !!!).

    The command is to Israel, the nation !!!

    You make the Scripture address who it is not addressing, and you point your finger at me and call me a liar and a thief ?

    What are you, a crooked lawyer ?:tonofbricks: :BangHead:
     
  20. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Will you qualify the word "reject", tinytim ?

    Because every human being born in this plane called time, even the elect, are by nature Christ-rejectors, at enmity with God, if not by virtue of their creed, or religion, or culture, by virtue of their choices as human beings.

    The Christ-accepters, forgive the new term I coined if it sounds so un-English, are those who, upon hearing the gospel, obey the gospel, submit to gospel instruction, and to gospel authority, and strive to please their Master.

    The unregenerate will not do that.

    Oh, sure, they'll walk on their knees from the street through the church door to the altar/s, they'll recite litanies of prayers, cross mountains and seas to make "disciples" and "win souls to Christ", but when push comes to shove, they will not surrender to the sovereignty of Christ over all: lifestyle, viewpoint, sin, preferences, priorities, doctrine, etc.

    As a matter of fact, even those who do know Christ, and are known of Him, do not totally surrender to His sovereignty.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...