Free will ridiculous

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    I want to focus on a different view on this, instead of focusing on man, I will focus on God.

    The will of God cost the blood of His Son, it was not free. Jesus who did no wrong suffered for this will of God. The will that we trust in His Son or I perish. A will that came at a cost.

    We should not think anything free when another life paid for ours.

    What is free will to you?
     
    #1 psalms109:31, Feb 1, 2012
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    here are some links
    http://rediscoveringthebible.com/SpurgeonFreeWill.pdf

    http://www.the-highway.com/Myth.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Y8t4NUzEc&feature=related
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Feb 1, 2012
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    correct, nothing is. Now He allows me to pick out my color of socks in the morning & which color boxer shorts I put on....after all we aren't puppets!:laugh:
     
  4. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    Your logic, and your understanding of the meaning of freewill is skewed, and you use the term "free will" totally out of context here

    "Free" has two different meanings, and you are confusing the two.

    1. "Free" can mean the price of something, or specifically, the LACK of price of something.

    2. "Free" can also mean FREEDOM of or from something.

    In the case of "freewill" you have chosen definition #1 which implies that salvation does not come with a price. This definition is totally wrong in this application because Christ paid the ultimate price for our salvation.

    The correct definition of "freewill" is definition #2, because 'freewill ' simply means that God gives us the freedom of choice when it comes to our salvation.

    This was a nice try, but your logic does nothing to disprove our freedom of choice that God gives to every man.

    John
     
  5. freeatlast

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    I think you are missapplying the term. Free will is a self determination with no outside coercion although their may be outside influence.

    An example would be that God by His Sovereign will chose for Christ to die on a cross, however Christ by His free will chose to die on a cross.
    I understand that can be taken a part because of the nature of God but I am not trying to explain the Trinity, just free will.
     
    #5 freeatlast, Feb 2, 2012
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  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    EWF, why did He grant me "free will" in the choosing of the color of my socks? :)
     
  7. freeatlast

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    So your wife by her sovereign will could change your mind. :laugh:
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    We serve a God who is not "Anal Retentive" :godisgood:
     
  9. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    You are talking about man's freewill, and I ask you to do so.

    I am talking about the will of God cost His Son, I wanted to show you something different than the free will of man that most want to focus on.

    I still believe in the will of God through His messengers He has not only placed life before us only, He has also placed continue to death before us to. The will placed before us cost His Son who did not sin.

    To cry Lord save us, or I perish
     
    #9 psalms109:31, Feb 2, 2012
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  10. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
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    We are free to make decisions, but we are not free from sin. We do not have a free will to not sin.
     
  11. freeatlast

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    Really! So are you saying all your sin is forced upon you and the times you do not sin that is forced upon you also?
     
    #11 freeatlast, Feb 2, 2012
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  12. MB

    MB
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    I believe you are mistaken in that what you are talking about makes the will of God out to be what Christ died for. Christ died willingly for the sins of the world. He did not die for His own will. He died willingly for our sins.. Our means of Salvation wasn't free that I can agree with. Though it is given to us as a gift. Christ suffered death for men and not His own will.
    MB
     
  13. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
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    I would say, that we are captive to our sin much like a thirsty man is captive to water. It is our nature to sin just like it's our nature to drink when thirsty. Now I know we have the righteousness of Christ and have been set free from sin; whether it being free from the consequences or the acts themselves is up for debate, but we are NOT righteous. We are seen as righteous.

    Simul Justus Et Peccator
     
    #13 Christos doulos, Feb 2, 2012
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  14. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    Your question at the end of your OP was this, "What is free will to you?"

    I guess I dont understand your question. First of all, none of us know how God felt about it. If I had to guess, it would be that God already knows all the mysteries of death that we dont, and as such, was not nearly as worried about death as we are.

    Secondly, after you ask that unanswerable question about God, you ask, "What is free will to you?"

    So which is it? Are you asking "what is free will to me?"....which I answered....or are you asking "what is freewill to God?"....which none of us can answer.

    Can you be more clear?

    John
     
  15. freeatlast

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    Then I would say you are incorrect on this matter. To live I have to drink water. To live as a Christian I do not have to sin. I suppose this could be debated but unless you want to tell the Lord that He is wrong I suggest you change your position as scripture makes it clear we do not have to sin. It is a fee will choice. We are not like a person needing water.
    1Cor 10:13
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

    We cannot escape without water but we can escape from doing sin.
     
  16. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
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    My friend. All analogies limp. I am referring to our nature; not survivability.

    I never said, we have to sin. I said, we sin (period)
     
  17. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    The first part of the O.P. was to show something different. It is about what it cost to bring the will to trust in Jesus or perish, the cost was the cross. The will of God is to believe in Jesus and you will not perish, but have eternal life the will from God that isn't free

    It isn't free it cost and God paid it. We are not waiting for the one to fulfill the promise to those who believe God and it is credited righteousness, He already came and paid our price

    The last question is to see your views on free will, it is open to say what you have been revealed about free will. If you want to enlighten me on my view I am listening.
     
  18. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    The sacrifice was not free, but you have the freewill to accept it or reject it.

    John
     
  19. freeatlast

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    I am only basing this on what you actually said. Here it is;
    "We do not have a free will to not sin." That is why I asked you in the times you do not sin are you being forced not to sin or is a free will choice?
     
  20. MB

    MB
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    This may have been what you intended. It just does not read that way.
    Exactly but that is in effect the atonement though He was willing to pay it for us.
    Freewill is the free choice we have to Submit to the righteousness of God. To Believe in and have faith in and trust in Jesus Christ.
    It has nothing to do with seeking God on our own because since Christ was lifted up on that cross He draws all men to Him Self. To be drawn and to come to Him are different things. Most men feel the draw. This draw is from Christ. It is He that Convinced me and It is He that convicts me of my sin. Conviction can take men to there knees if they will submit God. Though man can reject God his submission is required for grace to save Him.
    Free will is not our choosing we have already been chosen. Free will is for submitting willingly.
    MB
     

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