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Freewill and OSAS

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 20, 2008.

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  1. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Webdog, is it impossible to make shipwreck of the faith? Do we as believers not possess a free will?
     
    #21 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    We can, and we do...but it doesn't cause us to be "un-born" or "un-circumcised". There will most definately be repercussions, but 'unbirth' and 'uncircumcision' are not a possibility.
     
    #22 webdog, Mar 21, 2008
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: As I stated, physical circumcision can be made of no effect due to disobedience. You are injecting the words ‘undone’ not I.

    HP: You simply are reading into the text a presupposition and a correlation that is not made. All illustrations have their limits. Show us by Scripture that 'once born always born.'
     
    #23 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Show us in Scripture where it is stated that it is an impossibility. I know the presupposition you are reading into the text, but where does it state that ‘impossibility’ you say is there?
     
    #24 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
     
    #25 Amy.G, Mar 21, 2008
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Very true, Just the same, it simply states for the purpose of day of redemption you were sealed. How does this support OSAS? You have to read into the word ‘sealed’ the presupposition of OSAS to see it as supporting it. It is not derived directly from the text nor does the text imply OSAS or that the ‘sealing’ indicated cannot be made of no effect by disobedience without repentance. “Unless ye repent, ye shall ALL likewise perish.”
     
    #26 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  7. trustitl

    trustitl New Member

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    And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

    Is it fair to say that the brother who stayed could have been considered "alive" because he was with his father? Could it then be true that the "prodigal" son was alive until he left and then became "dead"?
     
    #27 trustitl, Mar 21, 2008
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


    That just about says it all, in addition to the other scripture that I gave you.

    The seal that Paul is referring to was used by an official to "seal" a letter or document that represented the authority of the one who stamped the seal. This made the document secure and authentic and showed ownership and authority.
     
    #28 Amy.G, Mar 21, 2008
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Could a thief break such a seal or could one deface the seal so as to render it null and void? Is there anything about the seal itself that makes it impossible for the security and authenticity of the seal to be rendered ineffective to secure its intended end?
     
    #29 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  10. trustitl

    trustitl New Member

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    You beat me to it.:thumbs:
     
    #30 trustitl, Mar 21, 2008
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    It's a done deal HP. Rejoice and be glad! We have been born again into God's family with the right to be called children of the living God! God has put His seal of authority, security and ownership on you. You have the spiritual DNA of God the Father. Now, do you doubt the integrity of God? His seal is His word and promise that you are going to be, not might be, redeemed! And this seal is the Holy Spirit.

    Praise :jesus:

    PS. The only "theif" is Satan. And he has no authority over God.
     
    #31 Amy.G, Mar 21, 2008
  12. trustitl

    trustitl New Member

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    Spititual DNA? Not quite sure where you came up with that one, but how exactly does it effect freewill and OSAS?
     
    #32 trustitl, Mar 21, 2008
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    IF "making a shipwreck of faith" is in fact "another way to be SAVED" then why is it in Romans 11 the same author that WARNS AGAINST making a shipwreck of faith ALSO says "do not be arrogant but FEAR for you STAND ONLY by your FAITH... IF He did not spare them NEITHER will He spare you".

    Does not sound like "another form of being saved" to me.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #33 BobRyan, Mar 21, 2008
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Sorry. Don’t let that stop you from putting it in your own words.:)
     
    #34 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  15. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Good points, Amy. I have a post on my blog on the three purpose of a seal in ancient times.

    source material

    A seal was to:

    1. Authenticate

    2. Secure

    3. Show ownership

    And we find all these in the sealing of the Holy Spirit of the believer.
     
    #35 TCGreek, Mar 21, 2008
  16. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    :laugh: It just popped into my head. The point I was trying to make is that we are God's children (those who are born again) and that cannot be changed anymore than I can change my "natural" father because I have his DNA.
    Maybe it was a bad comparison, but I hope you get my point. :)
     
    #36 Amy.G, Mar 21, 2008
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Lucifer did not need to be "unborn" OR "uncreated" to fall into sin and be lost though created as one of the "sons of God" (Job 1).

    Adam did not need to be "unborn" or "uncreated" to fall into sin and be lost through as one of the "sons of God" according to Luke 3.

    "sons of God" in this case referring to those created beings in the family of God who are made directly by God as opposed to being born to other parents.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #37 BobRyan, Mar 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2008
  18. trustitl

    trustitl New Member

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    Amy,

    The prodigal son never stopped being the fathers son, but he was considered dead. Any thoughts?
     
    #38 trustitl, Mar 21, 2008
  19. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Good point BR.:thumbs:
     
    #39 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 21, 2008
  20. trustitl

    trustitl New Member

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    Thought I would give you one to Bob. :thumbs:
     
    #40 trustitl, Mar 21, 2008
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