From an M.A.R. to a Doctor of Ministry Degree???

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by MinisterP, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. MinisterP

    MinisterP
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    I was just curious about any type of Doctoral programs where the prerequisite would allow for anyone who has at least completed the M.A.R. Degree. If anyone can list some schools or a link, I will check it out myself. Thanks in advance.....
     
  2. StefanM

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    Research doctorates would be your best bet. DMins are based on the MDiv or its equivalent.
     
  3. Rhetorician

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    MAR Response

    Good to hear from you:

    I have both the MAR and the DM. Most ATT accredited schools require that one have 90+ hours to enter their DMin programs. So the MAR applicant would have to make up the difference by what is called "leveling" or "equivalency" work to do the same number of hours as the MDiv in that particular institution.

    Also, most schools would require at least 3+ years post MDiv professional work to be admitted to the DMin program. These are my own experiences. I did the MDiv first and then went back and finished the MAR.

    Now as far as using the MAR for an entrance degree to do PhD or ThD work, that also has some inherrent problems. Actually, the MAR is considered a "Junior MDiv" professional practioners degree. I am not sure that the MAR would get one into one of the research doctorates. You might have to get up to speed in the Biblical languages for sure. One might even have to do enough work that getting the academic MA might be just a few more hours.

    I am sure that if you want to spend the time to investigate you might find a school that might accomodate you? It is certainly worth the effort.

    I would ask the question an advisor would ask: "What do you want to do with the doctorate when you get it?" If you want to teach then you must get the PhD/ThD. If you want to pastor of be in some para-church ministry then the DMin is completely adequate.

    You might go on to ask; do you not teach college? Yes I do. But I was at the right place, at the right time, I had something(s) that set me apart, and was appointed to the position by a sovereign God. Believe you me, it is very very hard to get a teaching positon today in religion or related discipline.

    My two cents worth from my perspective.:thumbsup:
     
    #3 Rhetorician, Feb 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2009
  4. preachinjesus

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    I'd imagine the terminal degree best suited would be an EdD.

    Corresponds well. There are numerous outstanding programs at SBC seminaries too. The EdD also allows one to teach in undergrad (and some graduate) roles and is usually a respected degree.

    It is a difficult step from MAR to PhD unless it is in a specific education related field. I don't any reputable PhD program in theology that would allow just an MAR or MACE to step in without significant leveling requirements. :)
     
  5. Rhetorician

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    PJ response to EdD Comments

    PJ,

    Good to hear from you.

    I once tried to get into an EdD program at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. They would not let me into the program even though I had been teaching at a Baptist college for a decade.

    What they wanted was an MA (CE) Christian Education, the old MRE, or an MDiv with a Christian Ed emphasis. So I am not too sure the MAR will get you into the EdD at an SBC seminary.

    Don't mean to rain on your parade. And I guess each application and seminary would be a case unto itself.

    FYI!.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  6. michaelbowe

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    I am having difficulty trying to figure out what good is a MAR degree, other than a jumping point to a MDiv. That seems like the school is trying to sell two master's degrees. If the degree will not get someone into any doctoral program, won't allow anyone to teach, and not many churches, that wish for a educated pastor, will find the MAR acceptable, then what is the point of having it? I'm not mocking anyone who pursued one, because Liberty almost sold me into the same program. So far the original post as been answered in the negative, and no one has given any hope of the MAR's value. Can someone who has pursued the degree tell me the value, other than a leading degree to the MDiv?
     
  7. Swordfinn

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    There is basically no difference between the Ed.D and Ph.D. degrees. Granted the Ed.D is seen more as a practitioner degree while the Ph.D is seen more as a research degree. They are both academic degrees and above the first professional
    D.Min degree. Given the option of Ph.D or Ed.D. I would go with the Ph.D.
    FYI I recieved my Ph.D. from the Greenwich School of Theolgy, UK (British Research Degree)
     
  8. Rhetorician

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    Michael Response to MAR Question

    Michael,

    I hope you are well? I trust that you are.

    The MAR is a terminal professional degree, as I mentioned above I believe.

    Some denominations have a "Deacon" designation. This degree would and is perfect for someone like that, who knows they will not be in an "ordained ministry" like the pastor, priest, or clergy person.

    Secondly, there are those, even in the Baptist contexts, who might just want to study for self improvement and greater knowledge of say the Bible or some aspect of doctrine, church history, or such.

    As far as its use is concerned, it is still a Master's degree. It is no small thing to have a Masters that has from 42 to 66 hours in any field, let alone Religion. One could teach say World Religions at the local community college of for that matter at a regionally accredited university.

    True, it may not get you into the PhD/ThD program, but you could go on and get another MA in a particular discipline and still have less invested that you would have in the 90+ hr MDiv.

    I hopes this answers or partially answers your question.

    "That is all!":thumbs:
     
  9. Swordfinn

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    Remember If one wants to be a chaplain in the military, one must have 90 graduate credit hrs. (Theology/Ministry or related field) Even though I hold a Ph.D.(British Research) there were no credit hrs. with my Ph.D. degree. It was my MA-36 credit hrs and my MABS- 36 credit hrs.plus a few other graduate classes that I took thru correspondence that was able to become an Auxiliary Chaplain with the Civil Air Patrol.
     
  10. Martin

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    ==The M.A.R. is a very interesting degree. How can it be used?

    1. As the first "step" towards a MDiv degree.
    2. As a graduate level theological degree for a lay person or pastor.
    3. As a graduate level degree in religion for those who want to teach religion at the college or community college level.

    I think that most people working on their M.A.R. are in the first two groups. It is not a useless degree. It is possible, btw, to get a teaching job using the M.A.R.. I got my community college teaching position based on my M.A.R. from Liberty University. I was working on my M.A. in History and was offered a teaching position in history. I needed a graduate level degree and I had that because of the M.A.R. and I needed 18 graduate hours in history and I had that because of the M.A.R. (graduate church history courses during that program) and the coursework I had already done in my M.A. History degree. So there are positives to the M.A.R., people just need to be a bit more clear on what it can/cannot do for them.

    As for a PhD/DMin, the M.A.R. will not work. Why not? Because it is generally not designed for that. Someone who wants to do PhD/DMin work in theology needs to earn a MDiv or an advanced M.A. that is made up of 60+ hours of work plus languages.

    As for the Ed.D., I don't know if the M.A.R. can work for that. Maybe in some schools it will. Those peopel who have a M.A.R. and who want a Ed.D. need to get at least 18 graduate hours in education first. Then they can get into a Ed.D. program. Another way would be to earn the M.Ed. and then enter a Ed.D. program. That would probably be easier. Two master degrees never hurt anyone. Both my stepfather (who has a M.A., M.Ed., and Ed.D.) and myself (M.A.R. and M.A.) can testify to that.

    Now for some advice from one who has worked in a University's School of Education: Get your Ed.D. from a school that is regionally accredited and NCATE accredited.
     
  11. Martin

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    ==Allow me to stress that point. Now is NOT the time to be trying to get into higher education. With state and local budget cuts many community colleges and universities are putting hiring freezes in place. So unless you have clear direction from God on this, put off going into higher education. Maybe you could teach high school or work in a different profession for a while. Right now it is harder than ever to get into higher education. I, like Rhetorician, was "at the right place, at the right time...and was appointed to the position by a sovereign God" (the two go hand in hand).

    I'm not trying to tear down anyone's dream. I just ask that people be realistic about the job market. Right now even those of us who have jobs are concerned about the situation. Nobody is ruling out layoffs in community colleges or universities. Things are, generally speaking, really bad right now.
     
    #11 Martin, Feb 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
  12. Rhetorician

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    Minister P

    Minister P,

    I hope you are well, I trust you are?

    I also hope your questions have been answered. Keep heart, the MAR is well worth the time/effort you put into yours. I wish you well and hope and pray as I type this that our Lord leads you in the right path for his glory.

    Amen!:thumbsup:

    rd
     

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