Fundamentalist Baptists crossing the Line?

That's true, but it's a separate issue. When a person joins a church, that person agrees to the constitution, and matters of faith and practice, of that church. You can't become a member of a church and agree with some items in its statement of faith, but not others. That's an indicator that the person doesn' take his/her membership seriously.

That said, there is often a problem with Baptists not taking their membership seriously. Take, for example, the Baptist Distinctives. We all claim to adhere to them, but if someone interprets a non-core scriptural issue differently than we do, we are quick to call their faith in question, and slow to adhere to the Distinctive of Individual Soul Liberty.

Anyhoo, that's probably a tad off topic. Sorry about that.

 

I didn't say it was known only to God. It is determined only by God! Samuel didn't just make that up, or have to twist God's word to argue it, like many rules that can be found in churches.

Baptismal regeneration has nothing to do with it. Most parents will raise their kids up in the church they are apart of, and often, the kids will just adopt it. Whether they truly believed, or not, they may or may not rebel. The point is, that many of these churches do impose unbiblical rules on people, and as much as you sre saying 'well leave then", the church will still demonize them, as if they were behaving like Saul.

Yeah, after they call others licentious or rebellious, when it's not always true.

There you go with those kinds of judging statements again (And this kind of thing, BTW, is probably the "lies" shinning was referring to!)
What it is, is people making up their own definitions of "the world" and "nigh unto God", and then criticizing everyone else over it. Like one music style is "the world', and yet another (from a different time period) is "God's". If one believed that and just lived accordingly, then it would be no problem, but the problem is, the people who do believe this stuff usually try to force it on everyon eelse, whether they are members or not.

Legalism means strict focus on law; not necessarily whether they place salvation on it. that has become the red herring in this issue. People can harshly condemn "contemporary Christians" over everything, but when called legalist, "we didn't stake salvation on it". But calling people disobedient and rebellious is basically the next best thing to that.

If they impose it on me, (even indirectly, but passing around statements that we are wrong because we don't follow that practice), I would.

Yeah, but it doesn't seem like soul liberty when these churches or leaders start preaching about how everyone else is wrong (which they can get across through print, broadcast, etc).
It seems like we have strayed a bit, for the OP was probably focused more on when the problem is in a Church that you are a member of. I then responded to something said about "liberty" and extended it to the fact that churches that are that tight-shipped internally will generally call everyone else outside wrong as well. So I was getting at the common principle that underlies both the internal and external judging they do.
People like to make up their own rules and read them into the Bible. With the secular-structured form of church organization, they have the right before man to include any such rule in their constitutions. But before God, they do not have the right to enforce any kind of rule they can think of in His name and claim it is from His Word. It either is truly from His Word, or it is not. When they stand before him, God is not going to say that it doesn't matter because the people could have just left and gone somewhere else. (Think, testimony Rom. 2:24). Just like churches that are too lax will have to answer and cannot appeal to "liberty" but so much.

 

We have a Pentecostal on this board bashing IFB churches. That soul liberty has been graciously granted to him, but at other places such freedom would not be allowed.
The same Pentecostal poster who bashes Baptists on this forum, hates the very Baptists for the reason that they "bash Catholics." In other words he hates to hear preaching against the error of the RCC. See the hypocrisy here. But he has no qualms on coming on this board and and standing on his pulpit and spouting out all the "errors" of the Baptists.

I don't know, do you think that we as Baptists, should allow these "heretical Pentecostals" the soul liberty to even post on our Baptist Board?

 

DHK: please calm down.

It is ONE Pentecostal. I do not think you truly want to exclude an entire group of denominations from posting in the "Other Christian Denominations" area of the board just because of one poster.

Banning entire an family of denominations for so little would set a dangerous precedent. Eventually, it would bring the "Other Christian Denominations" to nothing.

Please try to remember it is just one person. Please calm down, and please take your concern about this one person to your private moderator forums to reason with each other.

 

I was only referring to one poster. And I am quite calm. I have edited my post with an emoticon, if that helps.

 

I don't see hiim as necessarily "bashing" IFB's. He started out asking if they are crossing a line into cultic behavior (and you've said harsher things to him than anything he has said about Baptists, and you even lobbed some outrageous statements at me). And he did also acknowledge that Pentecostal churches can be this way too. And again, as I said, the line between the two movements does become blurry in some places.
And the "soul liberty" discussion was not in the context of whether this forum was granting it to him, but the fact that many ultraconservative churches in practice deny liberty to others, but then claim it for themselves.

You might be calm now, but I too believe you get way too defensive
regarding the IFB movement.
Yes, all churches cannot be responsible for what others do, since they are independent, but as a whole, like any other group, they have their flaws that cause people distress, and my main point has been that a movement that has certainly made known to the world its criticisms of both the world and large portions of the Church will have to have a thicker skin towards criticism themselves. Nobody can claim to be beyond criticism.

I think the root issue in both this and his other thread are people who want some absolute authority where they are God's perfect spokesmen and everyone else is in the wrong, so they can verbally try to beat the world into submission, and yet are martyrs if anyone ever says anything back to them. This is a problem in many different religious movements (it's a human pride and control problem), so the OP seemed to be pointing it out, or asking about how it is in IFB's. And I have seen a tendency in some parts of the movement.

 

I welcome your comments and am willing to discuss them.

But when a poster from another church, not only outside the IFB movement, but outside the entire Baptist denomination, and never having set foot in a Baptist Church, declares himself an authority on IFB churches, then I have the tendency not only to mock but disregard entirely what he has to say. He has no credibility whatsoever.
Furthermore, to look at the other threads that he has started it is quite evident in the purpose that he has come here. He is a troll, with the sole purpose of stirring up trouble. He has done that in the Politics Forum, and given Lady Eagle no small amount of grief. I have no respect for this person. His actions are unethical, dishonest, and need no answer.

As for you, I will carry on a discussion any time you wish.

 

Then stop changing your story.
Here is what you said:
http://baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1438044&postcount=39

Faithway is an IFB church in Ontario. That is the church that your friends told you about. Your testimony says that you experience such only in Pentecostal churches, not in IFB churches. It is your friends that have told you of such things in IFB churches, not you experiencing them.

I am going by your testimony. Why are you trying to change it now.
And from the testimony of one church why are trying to whitewash all IFB churches. Because one pastor from an IFB church committed suicide does that mean all the pastors will? Your logic is absurd!

 

Answer to the last question: in part because he is Baptist -- a Baptist missionary!

If you had read his profile, this would have been a `no brainer' to you. Try reading profiles. They help us get an understanding of the people here.

 

I know what you (as a Pentecostal) means by "attacking Catholics."
I do it a lot.
I also "attack Pentecostalism" and the "Charismatic movement" a lot.
Although the errors of the RCC are far more grave than the Pentecostal religion, for the religion of the RCC sends a person straight to Hell. One cannot believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church and go to heaven at the same time. It is a works based salvation. You cannot go to heaven on your own merit, as the RCC teaches. In that I am in full agreement with Faithway. Now why would you have any complaint about that?

 

Depends on which type of Pentecostalism your talking about. Some deny the Trinity eg Oneness Pentacostals like T.D. Jakes. That is a huge problem.

 

Granted that Oneness Pentecostalism is a cult in and of itself, and therefore puts itself outside the realm of evangelical Christianity.

However, even in the ranks of the Pentecostals and Charismatics, we believe that they are led astray in Biblical error with a belief in the sign gifts such as speaking in tongues, such gifts that ceased at the end of the first century. In many of these denominations, such as the Full Gospel Assembly, believing in tongues may not affect ones salvation, but it is Biblical error nevertheless, and one to avoid.

 

If you are going to become a member of an IFB, then find a church that doesn't present itself that way.
Again, just because one pastor commits suicide doesn't mean all pastors (of IFB churches) will commit suicide.
Just because one church (in your opinion) preached in a hateful way, doesn't mean all churches preach in that way.
Just because one church practices "gaybashing" doesn't mean that all churches practice "gaybashing."

You have been exposed to the teaching, experience and mostly hearsay, of ONE IFB CHURCH, and on the experience that you have had with that one IFB church you conclude that all IFB church pastors are going to commit suicide and are exactly the same as the one that you have had a bad experience.

Do you realize how foolish you look?

 

I am not a cessationist but I do not see legitimate signs happening today. For me the issue is what is a real gift of the Holy Ghost and what is fabricated. There is no doubt it is being misused for personal gratification rather than as a sign to the lost.

 

There are no lies here. Admit to this.
You have been to one IFB church.
You saw, heard about, and heard some things that you did not like.

But you have only visited this one and only one church. Any other information that you have is all hearsay. It comes from your friends.
Your authoritative information is all based on one church and your friends.
You, sir, are not credible whatsoever.
You are a troll and have come here with a purpose to stir up trouble.
This truth is self-evident