Fundamentalist's "Sins" v Bible's "Sins"?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 11, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Lot's of fundamentalists (remember, I am one) call these "sins" or "worldly" and therefore evil and wrong for a Christian who is right with God.

    No poll here. Would like your opinion and, if possible, Scripture. Just copy the list of the DIRTY DOZEN below:

    1. Is going to a movie theater sin?

    2. Is watching television/dvd/video a sin?

    3. Is attending a live theater (play) a sin?

    4. Is dancing a sin?

    5. Is using tobacco (any form) a sin?

    6. Is listening to rock music a sin?

    7. Is using cuss words/minced oaths (4-letter anglo saxon) a sin?

    8. Is using playing cards a sin?

    9. Is playing games with dice a sin?

    10. Is wearing slacks (ladies) a sin?

    11. Is going to a public beach/mixed swimming a sin?

    12. Is playing pool/billiards a sin?

    Bonus: Is drinking alcohol in any form a sin?

    Thank you for sharing.
     
  2. LarryN

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    Mt 23:27 -
    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."


    As fundamentalists we've long tended to focus on the outward appearance, rather than on the inward person. We often succeed in constructing "whited sepulchres". This focus on the outward is not the Lord's focus, and therefore shouldn't be ours either:


    1Sa 16:7b -
    ".....for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."


    Where should our focus be instead?: On becoming more like Christ, which is more difficult to measure, although the Bible provides countless examples and qualities as yardsticks.
    Instead, we've tended to stick with simplistic Yes/No kinds of measures; as if becoming Christ-like can be reduced to a mere checklist.
     
  3. TC

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    Colossians 3:17
    And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

    1 Cor 10:23-33
    "All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For "the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof." If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience-- I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
    So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. (ESV)

    It's not about following a list of do's and don'ts. We have freedom to make our own choices, but we half to be well aware of how our action might affect others and behave accordingly.
     
  4. All about Grace

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    Answer to all 12:

    In and of themselves -- NO

    At the same time each one of them could be potentially sinful.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Seriously looking. Bumping this up.
     
  6. PastorGreg

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    I think the problem with most all of these is that over the years we have made our application of principle as authoritative as Biblical principle itself. e.g. Immodesty is a sin. Lustful thoughts are sinful. Both are likely at beaches, etc. so rather than teach on modesty and clean thinking, we focus on an activity that we think makes the sin easier. ("we" being used in the generic sense)
     
  7. Tim

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    Answer to all 12:

    In and of themselves -- NO

    At the same time each one of them could be potentially sinful.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Absolutely right!

    But keeping a longer list than another Christian sure can help us feel smug about ourselves, can't it?
     
  8. Butterflies4mami

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    A lot of these items can be sinful such as drinking, smoking etc,... even over eating, because we are to take care of the temple of the Holy Ghost.
    The majority of these things We as a family don't participate in simply because we believe it is "lawful unto us but not expedient". We look at our role as Christians to stay two steps away from sin, so if we fall, we will still be one step away, and not in sin. We set barriers and hedges of protection for our children so that thier minds can remain innocent in a sinfully wicked world. I don't wear pants as a matter of conviction, & I don't want to debate cause I've seen the threads on this topic- they get ugly The same Bible verses I would quote would simply be "explained" away, so I won't take the time. I would like to add I DO NOT look down on anyone else that doesn't follow the same pattern of living as we do, we decided to live the way we do before my husband and I were married. We don't go to the movie theatre, or rent movies, we don't swear & try not use the slang for them. We don't consume alcohol in any form. Nor tobacco. We don't dance, except in private as husband and wife and not to worldly music. Anywho, to answer your question simply, many of those things are permitted for a Christian to do, that is they are not forbade in the Word of God, but the question we ask our selves is - Does it bring me closer to God, or strengthen my relationship to Christ? Would it cause a fellow brother to fall? And finally, wuuld it hurt or help the name of Christ?
    In Christ,
    Peggy [​IMG]
     
  9. Shiloh

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    Dr. Bob, There are some things on your list that are know sin Biblically. For example drinking (Prov.23:29-35) There are other things that on your list that would hinder the Holy Spirits working in your life and in my opinion that would make them a sin.
    However, making these things an issue and bringing them to light so to speak in our lives as christians makes them sin, James 4:17.
    Example, I know some dear christian ladies who wear britches. They have never had any clear teaching on the subject in their church. Now if they would be shown in the Scripture that God wants to preserve the sanctity of the divine distinction of the sexes established at creation and then ignore the teaching they learned then I believe it becomes a sin.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    However, making these things an issue and bringing them to light so to speak in our lives as Christians makes them sin, James 4:17.

    This kind of thinking intrigues me, Shiloh. Who determines to make these things an issue? Fifty years ago trousers on woman was a clear difference and may have had validity. Today trousers ARE women's clothing whether you and I like it or not.

    Playing cards is sometimes preached as sin. Why? If I am playing rummy with my 8 year old is that going to send him to Vegas?

    My question is basically this, "Who decides which are issues and which are not? Who can say, 'It is not good to play cards' in order to make James 4v17 applicable?"

    Is it sin for me to go to the cinema? Is it OK to watch the same film on DVD or video? Is it OK to pirate a copy off the internet and view that? (this happened with some Bible college students who could not go to the cinema so they downloaded a pirated copy of "The Lord of the Rings" and watched it). Is it OK to wait until that movie comes on network television and watch it then?

    Far too many human standards are preached as Bible convictions. I have said several times that I would NEVER be critical of you for holding your convictions about sins.

    To me the answer to these things is simple - "Keep your heart with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life." If we could preach on guarding the heart and personal holiness our standards would probably become even stricter.

    Is there is a difference between Bible sins and fundamentalist sins? I think so. It is wrong to apply James 4v17 to anything that you or I do not like. I may say it is wrong for your to drive your sled dogs so hard, does that make it sin?

    This is a much tougher issue to address than answering "James 4v17." If it is wrong it is because it is wrong Biblically, not because it is fundamentalist tradition.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Of course, we have Baptist traditions. Many from the South than have slowly migrated into mainstream America.

    Some pet teaching of a Baptist "guru".

    Maybe should have added "Listening to Radio". Amazed that many preachers in the early part of last century preached on the evils of that. Bad music (ragtime, jazz) and flappers.

    THEN they found you could use that medium for preaching, christian music, etc. Today? Don't hear any sermons about the evil of Pilgrim Radio, do you?

    CULTURE accounts for what is called "sin". And, of course, that will change from nation to nation and era to era.
     
  12. Tim

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    I rarely participate in debates about drinking--I don't drink myself, so what's the point? But the verses below serve to balance the discussion when Christians condemn all drinking:

    Ps 104:14
    "He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
    Ps 104:15
    And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which
    strengtheneth man's heart. "

    It sure seems like wine was provided by God as a blessing to men from Psalm 104. On the other hand, there are warnings against it's overuse, and against all strong drink.
     
  13. ArcticBound

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    1. Is going to a movie theater sin?

    2. Is watching television/dvd/video a sin?

    3. Is attending a live theater (play) a sin?

    The question is what are we watching? I have a TV and like to Watch Movies, but the Bible says
    "I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.
    Psa 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes"
    We need to be Careful, what we let pass before our eyes and our Children's eyes! We need to be careful what comes into our ears!
    If you turn on the TV and watch a sitcom, you probably have sinned :rolleyes: ! This world is geared for the carnal man. The name of God is taken in vain so many times. There are many sexual inuandos(sp?). My question is what movies are we watching or letting our children watch (sex, filthy language, witchcraft, etc.).


    11. Is going to a public beach/mixed swimming a sin?
    I don't think we need to list any verses for this one. Man should not look on a woman to lust after her. Going to a beach or pool with woman in bikinis can not be good for Spiritual growth. Some men will use the argument that it doesn't bother them. It doesn't bother me, I know when not to look at some vulgar magazine or some woman immodestly dressed, but when it is a continual dose of something or when one puts himself in that spot, it is not good and can lead to sin.
    Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
    Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
     
  14. gb93433

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    Yes, and in another country some men wear kilts.
    I Can also remember when my grandmother told me she was so glad when women started wearing pants. She is 96 this year. Imagine looking at a woman on the top of a pile of hay on a trailer or truck that is about 12 feet high and she has a dress on. Years ago women on farms worked outside doing farm labor. Both my mother and sister helped milk the cows and drive the trucks and tractors.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    I grew up hearing Southrans talk about the evils of "mixed bathing". I assumed they were racists and talking about public pools/beaches where Negroes (term used then) swam.

    Got married and found I quite enjoyed mixed bathing, but that's another story.

    I see more "skin" in Walmart or Safeway in the summer, while never going to a beach. Does this mean to avoid "lust" I should not go to the store?

    While not OF the world, we must certainly be IN the world.
     
  16. tinytim

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    My Grandmother used to condemn drinking Coke. She said that it was a sin to drink it from a bottle, as it was giving the appearance of evil. People in her generation had a different set of cultural standards. The only absolutes are found in the Bible. Too many preachers preach opinions when they should be preaching the Word. Think about this... As a preacher we only have 25-45 minutes on a Sunday morning to share the Good News. Why waste it with your opinions. We will be held accountable come Judgement day. I know of a preacher made a sinner take off his hat when he came into the church. The man said he didn't have to, so the preacher walked back and took it off. The sinner got his hat and walked out. Died a few weeks later, as far as we know he was lost. What was the point?

    I also saw a prominent lady in one of my former churches during a business meeting complain about a 14 yr old girl (first time the girl had ever been to church) having one leg up in the pew. The lady said to the woman setting behind the girl,"make her get her foot off the pew, that makes me mad". She then looked at the girl and told her, "Your generation has no respect for church property." The girl ran out in tears. I closed the business meeting and talked to the girl. She said that if Christians were like that she wanted no part. I confronted the lady, and asked her to apoligize. She said she didn't have to. She said, "that girl is just a sinner"
    I got righteously indignant! :mad:
    I explained that if she did'nt and she went to Hell then her blood would be on the lady's hands. the lady said, "don't blame me, that's her choice."
    Too many "Christians" are judging the lost instead of loving them.
     
  17. gb93433

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    You hit the nail on the head! We cannot always avoid some of the things we see. But we sure can choose to dwell on it or not.
     
  18. Taufgesinnter

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    1. Is going to a movie theater sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church prohibited it. It banned "theaters."

    2. Is watching television/dvd/video a sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church prohibited it.

    3. Is attending a live theater (play) a sin?

    I don’t think so, but AFAIK my last church prohibited it. See #1.

    4. Is dancing a sin?

    I don’t think so, but AFAIK my last church prohibited it.

    5. Is using tobacco (any form) a sin?

    I don’t think necessarily so, but my last church prohibited it. It IS drug addiction and a filthy habit.

    6. Is listening to rock music a sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church prohibited it. Neither radio nor instrumental music were allowed.

    7. Is using cuss words/minced oaths (4-letter anglo saxon) a sin?

    I think it depends; my last church prohibited it.

    8. Is using playing cards a sin?

    No. I think my last church frowned on it.

    9. Is playing games with dice a sin?

    No. I think my last church frowned on it.

    10. Is wearing slacks (ladies) a sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church prohibited it.

    11. Is going to a public beach/mixed swimming a sin?

    I think definitely yes. Except for the blind and maybe eunuchs.

    12. Is playing pool/billiards a sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church’s minister used it as an example of disreputable activity, along with "beer gardens."

    Bonus: Is drinking alcohol in any form a sin?

    I don’t think so, but my last church prohibited it. It likewise banned buying, selling, or working for wages on Sundays, wearing makeup, jewelry, and neckties, and observing Christmas, Valentine's, and Halloween.
     
  19. Taufgesinnter

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    Did my post shut down discussion?
     
  20. tinytim

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    I hope not.
     

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