Gators and Vols

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Scott J, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Great game... especially the outcome.

    Yeah and before you start with the bad call stuff, the Vols were due one... though this wasn't nearly as bad as the non-catch of 2000. The receiver's retaliation was much worse than the original joust from the D back.

    With the emergence of those two QB's, I am much more hopeful in the Vols' chances than I was to start out. IMO, both are better than Clausen now. They have a great line to play behind and excellent receivers.

    Questions remain on defense- Especially the line. They must be able to get some pressure without LB help. D backs played well considering the absence of pressure on Leak.
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    The Gators are a joke. They used to be a serious team. Now, they are little brother to Florida State and Miami.
     
  3. Scott J

    Scott J
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    You can't really say that while Miami is still spanking FSU every year.

    I hated to see the FSU-Miami game go like it did... but they are the Big Daddy of Florida football for the past 5 years.

    UF has beaten FSU since FSU beat Miami.
     
  4. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward
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    Anytime the Gators get beat it's a good day :D
     
  5. jet11

    jet11
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    Please tell me you are joking. The referee had an obligation to call that foul on both the instigator and the retaliator, or neither (He saw them both). That is one of the worst calls I have seen in years. Also, don't forget about the failure to restart the clock after the personal foul that gave UT about 25 more seconds than they would have had. Oh, and by the way, the SEC officials are being punished for those blunders as they should be.

    You were owed a call. What ever happened to earning a win. Are you going to support a bad call that goes against UT in next years Florida game, because it is Florida's turn to receive a make-up call? Come on. The SEC officials are the worst officials in the country bar none.

    You guys won the game, but at least admit the win was tainted by the TWO horrendous calls.
     
  6. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Nope. Most replays have only shown the last two blows and did not include the sound of the whistle.

    On the one occasion I saw the whole sequence, those two guys had been jousting that way during the whole play. We used to call it chicken fighting. Wade's last shove was just after the whistle and could have been considered a continuation of the play. The response was clearly after the play was over and was much more severe.

    The official discerned the difference between a little tap and a round house right that turned the guys head around.

    There is plenty of room to disagree with his judgment... but like I said, this was nowhere near as egregious as the non-catch of 2000.
    That was a bad call. But bad/missed calls are part of the game. I saw UF players throwing chop blocks that weren't called on several of their better running plays. Whether its coaching or officiating, UF gets away with more holding than any other team in the SEC.
    The clock thing? Yes. The punch thing? No.

    The failure to start the clock was due to a failure to know or apply the rules.

    Who was at fault and at what point a personal foul is warranted is always a subjective judgment call. You cannot punish the official for that unless there was no difference in the severity of the acts, both acts were clearly after the end of the play, or it can be proven that the official did it intentionally to hurt UF.

    Statistically it was an even game. They scored an equal number of TD's. UT was snake bitten by a fluke extra point miss (the only miss of Wilhoit's career at UT). They got it back on a fluke official's mistake, two terrific plays, and a great kick under enormous pressure.

    BTW, UF wasn't beaten by the officials. UT still needed 25 yards to get to the 35. Their defense had an opportunity to stop them... and frankly should have. If you want to be upset with someone then start with the UF defense and coaches. They couldn't stop a true freshman from managing a 25 yard drive in something less than 30 seconds without timeouts.
    I don't think the officials made the call to "make-up". I think one was a judgment call that I would agree with :D . The other was a mistake. I would like to see a perfectly officiated game... but I am not delusional. If this rivalry stays as closely matched as it is now (which is no guarantee with Zook in command), I expect that there will be another game changing bad call that goes against UT.

    Not really. The Big 12 is pretty bad and the ACC is probably the worst... only to get that much worse with Miami in the league. I don't have a dog in their fight but they seem to be easily star struck.

    The worst officiating in the SEC came during the "Ol' Ball Coach's" reign. He intimidated all of them for some reason.

    If it had been the other way around, I could have argued about missed holding calls that allowed Leak time to pass, about a fluke extra point miss, about chop blocks that kept UF drives going, etc.

    Officials make mistakes. Sometimes they are apparent. Sometimes they are transparent. The ones we don't see are every bit as costly as the ones we do see.

    The win is no more tainted than any other that is partially shaped by bad calls.
     
  7. jet11

    jet11
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    I was only arguing the point that the officials are being reprimanded for these calls because they were so aggregious and altered the outcome of the game. I do not consider a slap to the head to be part of the play, no matter how close it was to the whistle.

    There is also some debate as to whether Swain caught the touchdown pass. Maybe that should have been the make-up call for the non-touchdown call you are referring to. I did not see the play, but have only heard reports that it might not have been caught.

    I agree with you that bad calls are a part of every game and that UT won the game. I am not disputing that. However, to justify a missed call as something that was owed to UT is a little much.

    I will still argue the point that SEC officials are by far worse than any I have seen over the last few years.
     
  8. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Not trying to argue but just watch any game where you can catch a glimpse of wide receivers "blocking". They all chicken fight and most of the time they shove at each other's face mask. I don't know why. They just do.

    Huh? He caught the ball landed and ran 4 more yards into the end zone. That's pretty much control in my book.
    It was bad- not even very close. The ball hit the guy in the numbers then squirted down between his hands and body. He didn't even have time to pretend that he was throwing the ball down.

    I think he was as shocked as anyone that it was called a catch.

    It all balances out over time but an interesting caveat is that the guy who made the call in 2000 was a Vandy grad.

    A little like having a Auburn grad make a bad call that caused Bama to lose to UT. You'd feel like you were owed one down the line somewhere.
     
  9. jet11

    jet11
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    Point taken about missed calls against Alabama. We have had a few, as well as every other SEC team that deals with our atrocious officials. I know it is a part of every game. It just seems to me that the SEC officials missed calls seem to affect the outcomes of ball games more than any other major conference.
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Principle in sports: hit first, never hit back. The commotion usually nails the second guy.

    Do the Gators ever lose without complaining about the refs?

    Scott, the FSU Miami games have been intensely competitive. The Gators have stopped competing with us a long time ago.
     
  11. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    Now, I am a Tennesse fan and have no qualms seeing them beat a Florida team with a bad call. Indeed, it took a solid two weeks to wipe the smile off my face when Tennesse knocked off Miami last year despite the bad call involving that now injured Brown Kevin Winslow. But to call that a "little tap" . . . COME ON! I'm with Daniel David, hit first and reap the rewards.
     
  12. jet11

    jet11
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    By the way, I am definitely no Gator fan. But there were two bad calls, not just one. If the clock had been restarted as it should have been, the last bad call would never have had a chance to be called.

    Do you disagree that the SEC refs make bad a great deal of bad calls?
     
  13. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I honestly couldn't care less about the hapless SEC. It is now a conference of parity. Just look at the west. Last years NC goes down to Auburn. Auburn? It used to be a conference of strength, now it is just tradition.
     
  14. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Two bad calls.
    1 - It should have been offsetting or a no call. The referee clearly saw both infractions.
    2 - In any event, the clock should have started.

    Both of these bad calls led to the Vols win.

    However, referee mistakes are part of the game - even at the end of the game. Otherwise, Ohio State would have one less national championship.
     
  15. Scott J

    Scott J
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    I saw the whole sequence. Both players had already done what Wade did several times during the play. Neither player had turned the other guys head around until the last slap.

    That's true.

    We'll never know. There still would have been some time on the clock. Not enough for two plays and two clock kills but at least time for one.
     
  16. Scott J

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    It wasn't that long ago... but it was since Zook took over. He stinks and I am pretty happy that it doesn't appear that UF is going to recognize that fact until their program drops off significantly.

    This game plus the other two or three losses they will have this year will seriously hurt their recruiting whether they get rid of Zook or not.
     
  17. TomVols

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    First of all, we saw replays in slow motion. In real time, the retaliation looks worse than the initial shove. Could offsetting penalties have been called? Certainly. But they weren't.

    Second, no one gave the Vols this win. Florida had a chance to win this game by getting a first down. They didn't. They could've stopped Tennessee from driving down the field. They didn't. They could've stopped Wilhoit from drilling a 50 yard field goal that would've been good from 60. They didn't.

    Third, this NOWHERE makes up for Gaffney's no-catch call. That one was a game ender and the Vols had no chance of rectifying the mistake (same true of LSU vs. AUburn). Florida had plenty of chances to make this call not count.

    Fourth, we're forgetting something. The Florida player DID commit an infraction. It's a penalty. If he doesn't do it, we aren't having this conversation.

    Fifth, the fact that the officials were corrected is a non-issue. that happens with crews every week in every conference. No apology was issued to my knowledge.

    Stop with the sour grapes y'all. The Gators got beat.
     
  18. Scott J

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    Thanks Tom for that extremely insightful and intelligently written response. [​IMG] :D ;)
     

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