Give God The Glory For ...

According to ol' Spurgeon, Calvinism is just a nickname for what the Scriptures teach on the matter of our salvation and sanctification.

If we don't think the likes of Calvin and Wesley are gifts to the church, then we should discard Eph 4:7-12. And BTW, it is God who position people in his church (1 Cor 12:27-29.

And I am thankful that God didn't invite us into his chambers, whether we are calvinists or arminians, as he appointed his servants.

 

Understood, though you do realize your 'general' statement was a responce to what I had stated previously in another thread. So I answered you after that fashion but as I said I better understand you comment direction now.

I do not dispute that all good gifts come from God and even to the Church. So I would agree with you as well in that sense.

Maybe you should go back and re-read post #13 and #16.

If you will notice that I to was using a general statement when I stated :

a general statement ment to imply a group but not implicating everyone within the group to be of the same mindset.

In truth there aren't many Calvinists making the same 'attitude' claim but I agree it is debatable, and doing so has no value.

That to is debatable. Though I am likely to side with you on the issue. The Church as whole no longer 'teaches' how to properly study the scriptures, the doctrines they believes, and false teaching they reject. (cause it will offend some - I say GOOD!)

And I have seen it the other way around quite a few times as well. I can remember distinctly watching this during my college years. and some discussions I had with them. But I will admit I was not always the one on top. I remember very soundly getting pummeled a couple times. At I get it a time or to on debate boards. But it isn't about winning the argument for the sake a Doctrinal Champion but edifying your brother into maturity in Christ that they to might see those things Gods has revealed to you or them

That is a good theory but I doubt it. I believe it is because most believers are not properly trained, nor thoroughly equipped to give an answer for the Hope that lies with in them. They can not usually defend their beleifs because they have never really studied them.

Let me help you here.
I DO know you. I know the Martin of BB. I don't have to have met you in person. I have read your personal writtings and opinions here. What you state here in print is what thousands of others know you as, regardless of if you don't talk about this stuff in person. They and I know the you that you portray here on the Internet via the BB. You can see your attitude through out your postings regarding what I believe are the biblical doctrines of the Responsibility of Man. (what you call free-will) and this one is no different. You are generally a good fellow here, but once you get into preaching your view, you become degrading, condesending, and ALMOST boastful at times regarding the presummed 'superiority of your view' other those not so inclined. However, I'm NOT stating this is all you do but that it is common in your posting with speaking of C/A.

So she converted to Calvinism just before she died, or is that the 'attitude' I was refering to?

Yes, but on this forum you also have a testimony that reflects you HERE, just as you have a testimony to those with whom you actually meet and speak with. I left the BB for a time because I was becoming to cross and ill-mannered toward my brothers. There is still 2 who have an axe to grind with me and love to try, but that is ok. I am about to step off again and just lurk for a time. But I want to address the couple of thread I have engaged.

I believe the teaching of Calvinism are not on solid biblical ground BECAUSE of my own studies. And yes, I have SERIOUSLY considered and studied it. I believe Calvinists are wrong (not unsaved, just wrong). But I too like the example of Wesley and Whitfield, but also Spurgeon and Moody. Some might even say Peter and Paul but I don't think I would go that far. :laugh:

I agree that you should not budge on what you believe unless God show you otherwise. But please show those of us who do not agree with your view of scirpture disrespect by talking down to us and how right or supposedly more biblical your view is over ours. With meekness and humbleness teach and exhort. You may find we will talk longer and listen closer as attitudes on BOTH sides fade in the light of brotherly Love.

But who am I to talk - I'm the village idiot. :thumbs: :laugh:

 

"Free-will" is a misnomer for true bondage of the will. There is really no such thing as "free-will."

 

I have no idea whether or not you have made Calvinism an idol. But I am willing to suggest a few questions that may help you prayerfully examine yourself. Because that's the only way you will ever know for certain, to let the Holy Spirit show you.

1. Considering all the time you spend collectively in the things of God, how much of that time is spent on Calvinism? Is it an inordinate amount of time? Do you spend 80 or 90% (or whatever the number is) of that time thinking and working on the large percentage of the things of God that are NOT Calvinism?

2. Do you believe that Calvinism and God's Word are the same thing?

3. Do you have any reservation or hesitation in giving heartfelt glory to God for John Wesley?

4. Do you find yourself feeling satisfied that you have intellectually mastered soteriology in general and Calvinism specifically?

5. Do you find yourself evaluating other Christians by testing what they believe through the filter of Calvinism?

I had few more, but these 5 should be sufficient to get you going. God Bless.

raying:

 

I appreciate that very much. I know you are sincere or you wouldn't have posted the question in public.

Yes, I understand that it is much broader than most realize.

I realize you have plenty of company here, but I sincerely believe this a very dangerous concept. I think the questions are applicable.

I appreciate that, but I don't see that the distinction really matters.

God Bless.

raying:

 

Well, the Lord Jesus stated that some of His gifts to the church were the Apsotles/prophets/pastors/teachers/evangelists, so would say that any in those group who taught the truths of the bible would be a gift to the body!

I would say Spurgeon, calvin, luther, Wesley, etc all were gifts from God, do not have to agree with all they said/wrote/did, as ONLY the Apsotles we have to fully agree with!