Glenn Beck, the Mormons, Christians, and politics

Back to the O/P...

Beck is no different than any other Conservative politician in regards to religion.

Look, many of us support Hannity - a Catholic.
Limbaugh - Who knows what.
Lieberman - a devout Jew.

How many in CT are Christians yet voted for Lieberman because of his conservative (for the most part) stand?

I'll admit that once in a while Beck gets on the Mormon horse and rides it.
He has even quoted (paraphrased) the Book of Mormon once and called it Scripture.

So, I suppose each case is different.

If a politician brings his/her religion into the political boxing ring then he/she ought to realize that it might K.O. them.

I remember this being the number 1 peripheral but public problem with JFK, his religion. Will his allegiance be with the pope over the US government?

He left his religion almost completely out of the arena and was elected.

Personally, I think Beck is riding the line, but on the other hand, he's not running for office.

HankD

 

Doesn't every two decades, the Republicans cut their taxes, their lifestyles increase, the problems for the consumers don't really get any better (doesn't seem that anyone has really been happy with things), prices still rise, the deficits increase, and then everybody runs back to the Democrats again (and the whole cycle starts over)?

 

Deficits rise because of SPENDING - not tax cuts.

Cut taxes and revenues INCREASE.

 

We have yet to cut taxes and spending to the point that's needed nor for the length of time that's needed. People are fickle - they want instaneous changes. Come to think of it that may be why so many voted for Obama - just for "change" without even knowing what it was. We've built up an extensive dependency of government - the federal government - with endless justifications in many sectors of society. People don't want to let go of that! It would take decades to undo what we have done - what the citizens have done through their representatives. It is clear, however, that government does not solve the financial woes of its citizens - that much has been proven time and time again. Yet we keep going back to the same well looking for the majical water that will give us an eternal life of bliss under their rule - it won't work. The only way that there can be economic strenght is when people exchange goods and services that are of mutual benefit and the market determines what is and is not. I think that principle was much easier to grasp in older times - Biblical times, for example - where people did just that. I'm sure people where no more or less noble than today but, somehow, I just think they were closer to the realitives of economics. Money needs to represents a person's work, ideas, skills, decisions, timing, etc. - not always right or fair - and that cannot be done by government. Who among us would hire the government to manage our family business or finances - so why do we keep going to them for solutions?

 

Fair question. Excellent answer.

We've only done half of what was needed--the easy half.

Time for a diet, Americans. A strict one.

 

As to the OP. I find it troubling that more and more Beck seems to be tapping into religion to garner support for his causes. Just the other day, I heard him say something along these lines. "people need to be loyal to their church, whether it is a church, a synagogue or a mosque, they need to be loyal and support ( and he specifically said tithe 10%) and be involved." (my paraphrasing) Beck talks about the need for us to all look to God in order for us to achieve these common goals. What is troubling is he appears to be successfully gaining large support from many Christians of his causes. And while I might agree with much of what he says politically I don't feel comfortable throwing support to any cause that might weaken the Gospel message by my doing so.

 

What good are tax cuts during a depression?

If I had to choose between a Mormon and a Rastifarian (sp?) president . . . close call. At least Rastifarians don't claim to be Christians - what you see is what you get.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/world/29commander.html

 

The 90% who are still employed have a little more money with which to stimulate the economy.

HankD

 

How many people on this list ever refused to buy something because the sales tax was to high?

 

So if all the tax cuts we have had at times were not enough, and not for long enough; how do we know that will work? It sounds like something never tried. (A lot has changed since Biblical times, including the nature of the nations involved). Is this just some economic theory?

And considering that private companies consist of humans just like government, how do we know they will do the right thing if given all of this leverage? Remember, many of them are operating globally, and may not even feel any particular allegiance to this country and its economy anymore (which is why I believe people should pay more heed to the stuff people like Poncho and Windcatcher have been saying). So I could see where they would say just to trust them --for a longer while, and then everything will be right. But who knows what will happen by then.

I'm not saying big government is the answer, but then to me, big business consists of the same class and mindset of people; both types of institutions are power structures. (Think of them as consisting of individuals, thinking of their own personal career and wealth, whether they do it through a private company or government agency).

With a choice like that, I guess the appeal of govt. is that at least we elect those leaders, even though they ultimately let us down too. That's probably why the "fickle" people run back and forth from one side to another every few years.

 

Who can tell?

Also, my presumption was that you meant a cut in the progressive income tax AKA the payrol tax.

HankD

 

I meant sales tax. The argument is that people stop doing business when the taxes are to high. I can tell if I refused to buy something because the sales tax is to high. I have never refused to but something because the sales tax is to high. I have never refused to work because my marginal income tax rate was to high.

Why would Good Christians care about stimulating the economy by spending OUR money? Is the intent of Good Christians that the heathen should spend THEIR money and stimulate the economy for OUR benefit?

 

Wow, thats a line Ive heard all my life from Jewish shop keepers & merchants! Whatever floats your boat...LOL

 

:wavey:Over here!If its a large capital expenditure, I factor it into the price & then try to find a place were the price and/or the sales tax is lower. sometimes I can negotiate it based on those price/tax levels.....so , I do & you'd be an idiot not too.

 

My nephew lives in Texas and he buys his cigarettes from the Indians (Native Americans to the more easily offended) because there is no sales tax.

If he can't get them there - he simply doesn't buy them.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it. :laugh:

 

Bill, I would say that our concern is for the general good of all mankind as much as is within our power to affect them.

After all Our Father does the same...

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

As to the sales tax here in WA (8 plus %); if it were lowered, it probably wouldn't result in a significant blip on the economic radar screen here.

HankD​

 

Thank you Hank for that post & backing it up with scripture:thumbs:

Also a neighboring state, Del has no sales tax. O is good!

 

>As to the sales tax here in WA (8 plus %); if it were lowered, it probably wouldn't result in a significant blip on the economic radar screen here.

Compare WA and Oregon physically and economically. Physically Oregon has more land area and the Willamette Valley with a better growing climate. Economically WA is doing fine and OR is an economic backwater. The BIG difference? OR depends upon a state income tax and we depend upon the sales and business tax.

I do some shopping in OR when I visit my kid in Vancouver (WA) and buy my booze in Arizona.

>Over here!If its a large capital expenditure,

Problem - Big theoretically American companies are building in China and india, not the US.

See http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/ for a pessimistic slant.

 

Good points and questions!

It's just plain common sense that lower taxes result in keeping more of the proceeds of work in the hands of those who do it and increases the incentive for doing that work. Taxes siphon off those earnings and create all sorts of bogus incentives for doing or not doing work. Following all the tax rules becomes a business inside of business that takes away focus from the production of goods and services. Tax rules, instead of real needs, start to govern decisions. Most business spend a lot of money on tax accounting and legal issues. In fact, it creates opportunities for cheating.

You are, of course, absolutely correct that workers and employers are fallible humans just like those in government and those there can be and is corruption and abuse in those sectors. There is no perfection in mankind! Certainly there is a concern with mega corporations ruling the marketplace - even a global marketplace - by unfair means. Yet, these organizations are limited by a free market - where it is really free - because smaller businesses can and do rise up to slay the giants with better ideas, service, and costs. It does take time for that to happen. But just consider some of the giants of business that have fallen over the last few decades.

I do think the government has a role in all this but that role should be focused on ensuring that there is an effective system of justice to settle disputes between parties to keep things honest. I don't think the emphasis should be on the control of prices, profits, production, quality, etc. but simply on fair dealings. Fair dealings meaning that the goods and services offered for sale are, in fact, the goods and services delivered. By this I mean that contracts - real and implied - are honored, that what's provided is what's advertised, that what's warranted is actually warranted, etc. When things are done like this then the burden of making a decision to buy or not to buy can be left to the consumer. The supplier will adjust to meet the competition. Consider the practice of allow returns - even for no reason at all - that was born out of competition and not an obligation or a law. But, in today's world, the consumer is becoming more dependent upon the government to determine prices, profits, production, quality, etc. and expects them to take care of every err in their own judgment often even when they had all the facts available to make a good decision.

There is no perfect system in a world of imperfect humans. But I think the free market - the free exchange of goods and services between willing buyers and sellers - is the best way to assure a strong economy. The opportunity is there for more people to make a buck than with any of the other systems that have been tried. The opportunity is not fully removed for some people to make more bucks that many others think is "fair" and hence comes the wealth envy that drives for regulation and taxation of the "rich" while at the same time those without it lust for it. Making people rich or poor is not the proper business for government. Making sure rich and poor alike have a system wherein they can deal honestly and fairly - while using their heads - and seek justice when there is dishonesty is a good Biblical application of government. Some of the first signs of this were the establishment of legal weights and measures and the establishment of a recognized currency that represents goods and services.