God calls you to be an overcomer by living a holy life!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Let's get into something far deeper ... and you can argue over these passages.

    Rev 2:7 … To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life …

    Rev 2:11 … He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.

    “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
    Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God …” (Rev 20:6)
    The overcomers (above) and the holy ones are not affected by the second death.
    Therefore, the overcomers are the ones who live holy lives!


    “But (all who habitually practice sin) shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and
    brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev 21:8)

    Rev 2:17 … To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
    And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written …

    Rev 2:26 … And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end,
    to him I will give power over the nations …

    Rev 3:5 … He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his
    name from the Book of Life , but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

    Rev 3:12 … He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,
    and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of
    the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God …

    Rev 3:21 … To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
    This verse disqualifies what many think “overcoming” means, i.e. 1 John 5:5
    “Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”
    Because Jesus did not overcome by believing that He is the Son of God, did He?


    Rev 21:7 … He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

    Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14)

    “For just as you (formerly) presented your members as slaves of uncleanness,
    and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now
    present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Rom 6:19)

    “But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God,
    you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.” (Rom 6:22)
    Now, how’s this for unbridled optimism? They have become slaves of God?
    Okay, the ones who choose (and really strive) to be slaves of God,
    and who succeed in attaining holiness, will attain eternal life.


    “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you
    present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God,
    which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world …” (Rom 12:1)

    “Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all
    filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Cor 7:1)
    This sounds like Paul working out his salvation with fear and trembling!
    Yes, he was fearful that he would fail to be an overcomer, i.e. fail to attain holiness.


    “… He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,
    that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Eph 1:4)

    “… that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
    that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
    or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” (Eph 5:26-27)

    “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
    if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
    and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Col 1:22-23)

    “… so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness” (1 Thes 3:13)
    “Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit,
    soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thes 5:23)
    The Holy Spirit desires to sanctify you completely unto holiness!

    “… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
    because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Pet 1:15-16)

    “… what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
    looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God” (2 Pet 3:11-12)


    Holiness is required to enter heaven, and IMO, this means at the time of the BAC's death.
    There are exceptions, such as the thief on the cross.

    This is what overcoming is ... overcoming the sin nature and overcoming Satan.
    Which is what Jesus did (Rev 3:21).

    This is why BACs have the Holy Spirit inside of them ... to be our Helper/Comforter/Advocate!
    Too bad He cannot be our Controller also (of our free will).

    .
     
    #1 evangelist-7, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  2. The Biblicist

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    Nice list of texts that are jerked out of context and have no relationship to your point contextually.

    You guys always like to spread the field wide so that you are not exposed for mishandling the word of God according to context, so you can just hop from one to the other if one does not prove to help your point.
     
  3. evangelist-7

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    I fully realize that all kinds of people will not accept spiritual truth ...
    there are all kinds of reasons for people not accepting spiritual truth.

    All of these reasons cause all of these people to end up in hell.

    .
     
  4. DHK

    DHK
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    Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    What's a BAC?
     
  6. Gup20

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    my guess is "born again christian".
     
  7. evangelist-7

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    Some guppies are not too tiny to guess correctly after all.
    I need to give dem little critters more respect.

    .
     
  8. DHK

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    You need to give the English language a little more respect, and those who use it.
     
  9. steaver

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    Thanks be to God for His unspeakable gift.....

    "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God." (1Jo5)

    I'll stick with what John tells me I am :thumbs:

    Praise Jesus!!!! :godisgood:
     
  10. evangelist-7

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    All of the following is in the OP ... Do you find anything wrong with it?

    Rev 3:21 … To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

    This verse disqualifies what many think “overcoming” means, i.e. 1 John 5:5

    “Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”


    Because Jesus did not overcome by believing that He is the Son of God, did He?

    .
     
  11. steaver

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    Well, yes, I find a few things wrong with your applications of the scriptures you presented.

    My question would be why do you want Revelation 3:21 to disqualify 1John 5?

    Why don't you celebrate Jesus' promise that those in Christ will overcome!!!! :jesus:
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Give me the Bible - AND The Word IN The Bible.

    Let's look at what John says we are if we are not Keeping Christ's Commandments, Walking as He walked ... etc.

    1John 2:3-6

    1John 3:4-12

    1John 5:2-4

    John is no slouch on this subject.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. steaver

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    Amen brother! Great passages! Praise :jesus:
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Now see - we need not differ on all posts/subjects where we exchange views. :wavey:
    :godisgood:

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. evangelist-7

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    Cannot you see that the first disqualifies the second?

    Rev 3:21 … To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

    1 John 5:5 ... Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?


    I'll give this one a rest.

    .
     
  16. steaver

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    With all due respect brother, it isn't that perplexing. Jesus overcame the world. He who believes that Jesus is the Son of God also overcomes the world.

    "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1Pt1)

    "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" (Ro11)

    Praise :jesus:
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Originally Posted by evangelist-7 [​IMG]
    All of the following is in the OP ... Do you find anything wrong with it?

    Rev 3:21 … To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
    This verse disqualifies what many think “overcoming” means, i.e. 1 John 5:5

    “Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”

    Because Jesus did not overcome by believing that He is the Son of God, did He?


    Steaver - in this case you are gaming the point - side stepping it instead of answering it.

    And I don't understand why -since as I understand it - the one part of Calvinism that you do hold to - is "perseverance of the saints".

    E-7 brings up an excellent point from Rev 3 about Christ overcoming by more than cheap grace "just say nice things don't worry about what shows up in your life" sort of "perseverance".

    Jesus points this out in Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter... but he who DOES".

    And in fact 1John 5 puts it even MORE strongly than them all.

    Exodus 20
    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


    1 John 5
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


    1John 2:
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    And we have not even gone to 1John 3 yet.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #17 BobRyan, Jul 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2013
  18. BobRyan

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    1 John 3 - gets its own post -

    1 John 3
    1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
    2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
    3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
    4
    Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
    5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
    6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
    7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    8 the
    one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
    9
    No one who is born of God practices sin,because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10
    By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious:anyone who doesnot practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
    11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;
     
  19. steaver

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    I'm not sure why you guys do not grasp the biblical concept called "IN Christ".

    Jesus of Nazareth is the ONLY man who ever overcame the curse of the law which is death, and is the only man, who by his own merits/works kept the law and will ever overcome the curse for all of us IN Him who keep breaking the law.

    Why don't we let the scripture teach us how we should interpret scriptures?

    "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. (Rev12:9-12)

    NOW! How is it you are overcoming BobRyan and E-7 ???

    (a) By YOUR commandment keeping?????

    (b) By the blood of Jesus PLUS YOUR works????

    (c) Or by the blood of Jesus Christ Alone??? As the scriptures declares unto us - Faith Alone in the finished works of Jesus Christ, created IN Christ Jesus UNTO good works!

    I will take (c)

    Yes, he who does what Bob? Good works? Do you stand only by your faith as Paul said in Romans 11? Or do you desire to be justified by your works - the law?

    Yes, I love Jesus so I do keep His commandments as much as it is possible even though my flesh wars against me and even defeats me many times. However, my keeping of His commandments does not justify me, but as James says, it does justify my professed faith.
     
    #19 steaver, Jul 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2013
  20. evangelist-7

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    I understand your confusion.

    IMO, to fit with the rest of Scripture ...
    John's "believe" (pisteou) means a lot more than just believing.
    Peter's "faith" means a lot more than just having simple faith.

    I have a ton of Scriptures for the following ...
    grace-faith >> obedience >> co-operation >> righteousness >> holiness >> salvation

    A mutual co-operation is required, and this is taught by the Holy Spirit.
    That's what we have Him for ... to lead and guide us into all truth.

    P.S. When Jesus said He would convict the world of sin, IMO, He meant everyone! Even you.

    .
     

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