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God Controls Hearts and Thoughts as He Says in His Word

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jun 21, 2011.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    double post
     
    #61 Winman, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I quoted 2 Tim 2:26 verbatim from the KJB, look for yourself.

    I believe God is sovereign, just not the way you do. I do not believe God controls men's thoughts and have shown scripture to support this. I believe Satan has liberty to afflict unbelievers and have shown scripture that supports this as well.

    I don't see how making God the author of sin glorifies him. If God is controlling all things, then he is controlling sin and directing it to happen.
     
    #62 Winman, Jun 22, 2011
  3. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Do you believe that the crucifixion of Jesus was a sin? Do you believe that God was in control and directing it to happen?
     
    #63 jcjordan, Jun 22, 2011
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    A moot question since Jesus Christ is God.
     
    #64 DHK, Jun 22, 2011
  5. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    God will give us over to our own evil desire not His evil desire that has come from ourselves not God. God will use it for the good of those who love Him.

    Satan hates us with a burning rage and he will do anything he can do to prove to God what he is out to prove to God. Satan night and day is accusing us. The hedge is a separation that God has to move for satan to do anything. God reign's not satan.

    When we sin it is not doing the will of God at all, but God will use it for the good of those who love Him.
     
    #65 psalms109:31, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2011
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    True. This is what some here need to see.
    Sin is not the will of God, and neither does God force us (control us) to do it.
    Note Romans 8:28 is for believers only. All things work for together for good to them that love God, to them that are called according to his purpose.
    Let's not proof-text; take Scripture out of context. Sin does not accomplish the will of God. Evil is evil. The reason there is evil in this world is because Adam sinned and we all have a depraved nature. We sin: because of our nature, and secondly because we like to sin. Don't blame God for sin. And don't blame sin for the accomplishment of the will of God.
     
    #66 DHK, Jun 22, 2011
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    In other words, DHK, you want to turn your blind eyes from the truth. Look whos' talking proof-texting. In other words someone used Scripture that clearly refutes your position?

    You have to limit God, because you're scared of the reality that He permits sin. You can't separate permission from "author" because you're incapable obviously. So what do you do? We talk about God controlling and permitting all things, and you get twisted and say "we're making Him the author" in essence. Nope. You're the one who fashions God to your liking. We accept God is all His glory, and recognize He controls all things.

    It's unreal I have to even address this:

    The crucifixion is not a moot point, that's total nonsense. You would twist anything, including this priceless event so you can be what you think is "right." And this is really really sad.

    God permitted it, you limit the fact of it's grieviousness, and of God being its Author, because it happened to Gods Son? Wow.

    How utterly foolish. That sin, nailing Him to the cross was YOU pal. You. Your sins. Mine. Others. You get it? And yet you minimalize it because it happened to God, and can't accept He as the author and the One who ulitmately permitted it? Very interesting. And quite pitiful of you.

    I've never seen a child of God, ever minimalize the crucifixion of Christ as you do here. And you do so to "secure" your weak theological stance that fails to see ALL Who God is, and to keep Him fashioned to your liking? Unbelievable to say the least.

    The thing is, God permits sin. He controls all things. And you? You just don't like that too much. Too bad, He's God anyhow. And sin does accomplish the will of God. Pharoah? Judas? Hello? Crucifixion? Hello? More bad theology from you?

    In your world? Man controls things. In Winmans, he grants more power to Satan than he will admit to God. In God's world? He controls all things and some just don't like that too much, now do they? And He clearly uses sin to accomplish His purpose.

    I thought I've seen alot until I saw this. This is unbelievable nonsense. The thing is DHK, anything that proves you wrong is a moot point to you. Even the crucifixion, and even Scripture.
     
    #67 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2011
  8. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    This little phrase highligthed is precisely what YOU, MYSELF and everyone here does routinely, such is the nature of everyone of us HUMANS striving to understand GOD. YOU, nor anyone else has a corner on the 'absolute truth" market.

    Second, you make generalizations about individuals that YOU think (interpret) to be true, not apparently accurate.

    "And yet you minimalize it"
    "You have to limit God"
    "You're the one who fashions God to your liking" (OK possibly, but you do exactly the same thing)
    "He controls all things. And you? You just don't like that too much.
    "In Winmans, he grants more power to Satan than he will admit to God"
    "This is unbelievable nonsense"
     
    #68 quantumfaith, Jun 23, 2011
  9. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Everything I've said about them is truth and is exactly what is happening. Totally accurate. Quoting my phrases takes nothing from that.

    That you rush in to offer support to make the crucifixion "moot" is a commentary on you. And a sad one. And to use it to support ones theology, and minimalize it because it happened to God? And you offer support? Even worse. Yes, he minimalized it, and so have you by offering support.

    None of us has a corner on the market, that's you generalizing me. I just happen to accept the reality of Scriptures and that God controls all things.

    I will tell you one thing, I will never throw out Scripture and make priceless things moot to support me, especially the crucifixion. I'll continue to let Scripture drive my theology, not unbelief, not incapability of accepting all of Who God is, and will instead be supported by Scripture. Even when it's difficult and hard.

    That others limit Gods role in sin, and say He doesn't use sin to accomplish His will is, yep, limitting God to their own concept of Him. It's called fashioning God to their liking. It's Biblical. It happens.

    And it's not looking at the evidence when they do this.

    You should go read your Bible, walk with God today, and perhaps read Timothy Kellers "Counterfeit Gods." If you have read it, you need to read it again. Obviously you haven't done much of any of this yet today.

    That you support someone to minimalize the crucifixion is, well, pretty sad.

    - Peace
     
    #69 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    You're right on track jcjordan.

    Also, the crucifixion isn't moot in point because it happend to be God it happened to, as DHK says. That reveals to us that it is of extreme importance because our sin nailed Him to the tree.

    So, yet again, God used sin to accomplish something. And this was something glorious.

    Some will trivialize anything to support their beliefs. Even this.
     
    #70 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
  11. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I pray every day that I do not mold one scripture into my liking and into my understanding in God, but believe in the faith God has given me through His word.

    We are to make peace with everyone, not to view them in a worldly point of view. Why, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. I am not lying.

    That we are the messenger's ambassador's of Christ on Earth. I am not hear to tear down faith that they believe has been given to them by God, but that we may reason together. We all have gifts and things revealed from heaven that I do not see and others see and visa-verse together we can learn so much.

    I have not been called to tear down, but to build up and to encourage to continue in what God has convinced us in. To not turn away from a living God who is blessed forever.


    1 Timothy 2
    1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

    2 Corinthians 5:16
    So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

    Hebrews 3:
    12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

    Ephesians 6:
    The Armor of God
    10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.








    14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

    18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
     
    #71 psalms109:31, Jun 23, 2011
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  12. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    (Jas 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

     
    #72 Benjamin, Jun 23, 2011
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Did I say God tempts man to sin? Nope. He doesn't but He certainly uses it to accomplish His purposes. Learn perhaps to distinguish between the two?

    Also, I recall Jesus, in the prayer model, telling us to pray "...and lead us not into temptation..." Do you wish to twist this and say that I am stating God tempts us? Which I totally deny.
     
    #73 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
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  14. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    So... He controls our thoughts, puts some thoughts in our mind, but not all thoughts. So .... Which thoughts does He put there?
     
    #74 Gershom, Jun 23, 2011
  15. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    My point was that God orchestrated and controlled the most heinous sin ever committed in history. Is God a sinner or evil because of this. No. Is it hard to wrap our mind around? Of course. It's also hard to wrap our mind around the doctrine of the Trinity, yet we accept it (at least I hope so). God is totally 100% sovereign. Man is 100% responsible. God crucified His Son. I am fully responsible for it. Hard to understand, but both are true. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Also, to my finite brain, that makes no sense. But the Bible teaches it, and I must accept it.
     
    #75 jcjordan, Jun 23, 2011
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Than when his brothers did "evil" unto Joseph, he lied when he said that God used it for his and their own good?
    That when Jesus was nailed to a Cross so that we might be made alive through His death ansd atoning work, that God indeed"used: our sinfuless/wickedness to accomplish his glory.. In fact God said that the Devil would NOT have done what he did, to inspire them to crucify Christ, IF he would have known that act would forever seal his doom...

    So now we have Joseph and Apostle and God lying to us?
     
    #76 JesusFan, Jun 23, 2011
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    he is God, but also was/is fully Human....
    And as such, was NOT able to control all things while on earth, as he submitted to the Will of His father in ALL things, left it outside His direct controlling!

    this Man, delivered over by the (Z)predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, (AA)you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24

    Don't know. doesn't this sound like God was allowing and directing everything to come to pass in a Soverign fashiopn?
     
    #77 JesusFan, Jun 23, 2011
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Amazing what we can start to actually see in the Bible when we take off our "preconceived" systems of explaining how God suppossed to do all things !
     
    #78 JesusFan, Jun 23, 2011
  19. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
    #79 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    What actually happened here jc, is you've used a specific reference proving your point by Scripture. Or better yet, to prove your point is Scriptural.

    I mean, how dare you prove, that God Himself, allowed and permitted sinful man, to nail His Son on a tree, and doing so, accomplishing a great purpose?

    How dare you used this to prove it!!! :laugh:

    Therefore, he hit the moot button, as is the norm for passages that prove him to be inaccurate.

    Great job. God, in fact, allows sin. God, in fact, uses it to His Glory and to accomplish His purposes. This does not mean, God tempts man. That many on here fail to distinguish between these things is seriously hard to understand as to why.

    - Blessings
     
    #80 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2011
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