GOD DID IT

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mark Osgatharp, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    In Isaiah we read:

    "The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

    Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

    They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: and they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

    Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

    Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

    Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

    Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

    Note that GOD DID IT ALL. He used evil men to do it and punished them later for doing it. It does not change the fact that He was in absolute control through it all - rape, theft, and child murder included.

    That is the God with which we have to do and which has been by and large rejected by modern "Christianity" falsely so called.

    Mark Osgatharp

    P.S. When you consider that men such as Isaiah were went to declare that God did these things, it is no wonder the prophets were hated and despised.
     
  2. whatever

    whatever
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    Oooohhhh - better get ready to be hated and despised yourself. A lot of people here do not want to hear this kind of truth.
     
  3. SAMPLEWOW

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    WOW,Thats a fact. Ijust heard a messege on being hated for telling the truth of Gods word,it was great !
     
  4. JackRUS

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    I too believe that God is sovereign in these things, but that we shouldn't just judge that it was all judgement on God's part. I believe that this kind of thing is actually more mercy than judgement when people people are removed from their place of complacency and hear the gospel from all the Christian organizations that are sure to help. I pray and believe that many will be saved as a result of this calamity.

    A greater judgement would have been for God to just let them go on sinning in their "Southern Decadence" as they like to say, and heap up wrath against the day of wrath. Rom. 2:2-6

    BTW, a large homosexual parade was planned for the Thursday after the storm hit. Christian churches tried to dissuade the mayor, but he was adamant that it go on, and he even further promoted it. And he blames President Bush for the problem.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    And you blame the homosexuals for the storm?

    It is all God. And if He were to judge ANY of us based on sin, we'd all have been zapped long ago . . .

    Dr Bob
    "In wrath remember mercy."
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I think it is interesting that we always seem to blame the sin of others for disasters.

    What if God were to judge pride, backbiting, hypocrisy, coveteousness, hatred of the brethren, etc in the same way we assume He judges homosexuality and immorality?

    By the way - check out the reason God destroyed Sodom - Ezekiel 16v49.
     
  7. Aaron

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    He will have compassion on whom He has compassion. When He shows compassion, it's because of His mercy. When He brings judgment, it's because of our sin.
     
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    My purpose in starting this post is not to set myself up as more deserving of mercy nor declare why God does what He does in any given life or at any given point in history (though anyone who has read the Bible knows that God does, from time to time, single out individuals, cities, and nations for exemplary judgment).

    My purpose in it is to declare the truth which, by and large, has been rejected by the psuedo-Christianity of our day; which is that God exercises providential control of the creation and therefore nothing befalls us by accident. When we comprehend this truth we can no longer attribute our tribulations to "mother nature" but must confess with Job that,

    "The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    C4K,

    That is only part of the reason why God destroyed Sodom. Fornication and sodomy were also causes. That is not to say that these sins are more deserving of punishment than others, but they are set forth as reasons why God slammed Sodom. As Jude said,

    "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. HankD

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    KJV Psalm 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    HankD
     
  11. James_Newman

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    Ecclesiastes 8:11-13
    11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
    12 Though a sinner do evil a hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:
    13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    C4K,

    That is only part of the reason why God destroyed Sodom. Fornication and sodomy were also causes. That is not to say that these sins are more deserving of punishment than others, but they are set forth as reasons why God slammed Sodom. As Jude said,

    "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]Good reminder Mark - the sins of Sodom:

    Fornication
    Sodomy
    Pride
    Unshared wealth
    Failing to help the poor
    Haughty
    Abminations

    Maybe you have a point after all.
     
  13. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    C4K,

    I had a perfectly legitimate point from the very start, though some may have been too theologically dull to comprehend it, which is that the Lord took full responsibility for sending the Medes to violently destroy the Babylonians. That didn't excuse them because they acted out of their own free will; but God directed the evil deeds of their free will to accomplish His jugdment.

    How unsearchable are His riches and His ways past finding out!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  14. JackRUS

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    That may be true, but you used an example verse that has been used for years to describe America. ;)
     
  15. JackRUS

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    Dr. Bob.
    Would you please read Revelation chapters 4-19 and kindly give me another reason other than sin that God pours out His wrath.

    (Or the OT flood for that matter).
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Wonder what Rev 4-19 has to do with this discussion??

    But God often judges by His mercy. Sin left unjudged might bring 10-fold more punishment. So God is actually MERCIFUL in judging (or killing) to LESSEN the coming eternal judgment.

    I'm actually preaching on this subject as I progress thru Romans.

    "But because of your lack of repentance now, you are amassing greater wrath in the coming day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, Who will render to every man according to his works."

    If God takes the life of an unregenerate sinner at age 20, He is MERCIFUL. That person could live and sin and amass greater eternal judgment (there are degrees of punishment in hades/hell) for 60 more years.
     
  17. Artimaeus

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    The Bible is our standard for right and wrong. Whatever God does IS, by definition, right. People develop a sense of morality (and they should) but, it seems that after a while, when they have become comfortable with their concept, that they begin judging everything from that concept rather than from the Bible. There is no seperate standard that God lives up to. He does anything He wants to, anytime He wants to, and in any way He wants to. Our responsibility is to adjust our concept of morality to fit Him and not the other way around.

    It is difficult for us to wrap our teeth around the idea that God used EVIL to accomplish His goals but He did. It should, therefore, become a part of our concept of right and wrong. Not that we can then decide to use evil to accomplish our goals but that God can do it and it not only be acceptable but that it is indeed the absolute right thing for Him to have done.
     
  18. Petrel

    Petrel
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    I take issue with this. We are told to emulate God, but then we are told that God may at some times tell the truth, which is good, but at other times lie, and that is good too? How can we trust God if his morality is constantly changing? Yes, he told us he would forgive us our sins if we believe and tells us to have faith, but maybe he's decided that it's good to lie to us, and maybe he'll send us all to hell and call it good.

    Additionally, would you really, honestly think that God was worth following if when Jesus had been sent to earth he decided it was good to molest children? According to your point of view claimed above you would have to believe that. Apparently according to your philosophy this scenario would be entirely possible!

    If God is like that, maybe heaven is more like hell.

    I do not have the entire Old Testament thing sorted out to my satisfaction yet.
     
  19. Marcia

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    But God is not arbitrary like the Muslim Allah. It is not that whatever God does is moral because he does it, but it is because he is absolute goodness and morality himself. His actions flow from a perfect and good character. There's a difference in these 2 views.

    As far as judgment today, it seems like people are forgetting that in the OT, all those punishments and judgments were announced (usually beforehand) through God's prophets. This is not happening today -- I think His wrath is being stored up for judgment day because we have Christ to turn to for forgiveness to avoid his wrath.
     
  20. Artimaeus

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    God cannot lie. I said God can do anything He wants. I did not say God can do anything at all. It isn't that God cannot lie because there is a standard that He tries, even effortlessly, to live up to. He cannot lie because what He says is the definition of truth. There is no objective standrd to compare what He says to.

    Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    God's morality never changes. It is the one constant in this universe that we can count on. Our concept of morality, however, does change and it should always change to fit His and not some other objective standard we have devised.

    Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    A hypothetical scenario about Jesus doing wrong is only confusing to the discussion. I can be confident that this will never happen because of the previous and following verses:

    Gen 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

    1 Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    If we imagine that God has done something wrong then it is in our imagination that the problem lies and not in God.

    Neither do I, not by a long shot. I am only saying that instead of building our pigeon holes and then placing God into one of them that we should learn about God and let that be our definition.
     

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