God help us

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Alive in Christ, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    3,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    On the NBC news they just reported that the Boy Scouts will no longer ban openly homosexual men from being in charge of the boys.

    God have mercy. :BangHead:
     
  2. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    0
    A Comment...

    You are right...God have mercy...not on the organization that would make such a wicked decision, but rather on the children whose innocence will be surely stolen from them because of it.
    Let me add some "personal" relevance to this issue. When I was young I grew up participating in Cub Scouts and then as I got older on to the Boy Scouts. Most of my memories of this experience were positive and I can recall them fondly. I attribute my love of the outdoors and a fondness for camping to the times I spent as a scout. I am sad that I rarely get opportunities to do things such as that anymore. However, during the time frame when I was ages 12- 14, the scout troop in central Virginia that I was a part of was led by an adult scoutmaster that was later exposed as a gay predator. I know this personally because at least two of the boys he made "advances" upon were myself and my best friend. I won't speak of it in anymore detail than that. I know there were others also and when all the facts and evidence surfaced, a group of the other male leaders and adult family members saw to it that he was removed from his position and banned from any contact or participation. They did it pretty quietly even giving him a "retirement" ceremony so as not to draw much attention to it publically. It was a pretty nasty mess that hurt everybody involved. That doesn't even begin to address the mental and moral scars that were left behind. This man violated our innocence and our trust. I personally thought highly of him until then and have since hoped he was able to get right with the Lord and turn his life around. I have no knowledge of whether he actually did and have never had any contact with him since. Since there seems to be such a rush to legitimize this kind of abomination because of the financial consequences of NOT doing so, all I can say is that the devil must be laughing with glee and I expect that we'll begin to see more of what I just described. This world and our country are in terrible trouble. If I was a parent with any children involved in scouting I would definitely abandon it immediately and look for other options for my youth within the framework of the local Bible-believing churches. If they didn't offer anything comparable I'd volunteer to start something as an opportunity to teach these kids godly principles. I hate to see the Boy Scouts go that direction. Very Sad!

    Bro.Greg:tonofbricks:
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    The mistake was in doing it quietly. People like this will just go where they can find others to molest.

    Many churches quietly dismiss a staff member for inappropriate sexual conduct. They simply move to another church and pick up where they left off. This will go on for years unless enough of those abused come forward to put the person in prison where he belongs.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Does being gay mean one is a molester?
     
  5. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are correct

    You are correct...but that was then and this is now and 40 plus years have passed. At the time...everybody thought that was the right way to deal with it. I just hope now that the guy has found the Lord and left his wicked lifestyle behind him. I will be fair and say that apart from his moral failings he was, until his sinful weakness surfaced, an excellent scoutmaster from a strictly technical standpoint. Our scout troop was always involved in all the big Jamboree's and Camps and we were high achievers in our scout district. The high point of my scouting experience was the major cross-country trip we took to the Philmont National Scout Ranch in Cimmaron,New Mexico. We hiked and camped out over a total of 92 miles over 13 days in some of the most beautiful country near the foot of the southern Rockies....and camped out nightly on the road as we traveled to get there coming and going cross-country. It was nothing short of a tragedy for our group when all this other stuff surfaced. It really ripped the heart out of a bunch of us....I pray that somebody will reconsider this terrible decision but I fear our nation is too far gone morally for that to happen. As AiC originally said.."God have mercy"!:praying:

    Bro.Greg
     
  6. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Not necessarily. It does mean they are sexually immoral.

    However, let's just think about this for a minute. Would we let a heterosexual man have this kind of exposure and opportunity with young ladies? No. Why then would we think it is less of a risk to allow a homosexual man to have that exposure and opportunity with young men? We shouldn't.


    This decision makes no sense to me. We have churches and businesses wisely taking steps to minimize the risks of sexual sin. We have had regular classes and briefings on sexual harassment in the military. We have windows being put into office doors and classroom doors. We have pastors having another person present so they are not alone with a woman who is not their wife. We have male chaperones for boys and female chaperones for our girls on youth trips. The cases of moral failure are numerous and wise people are taking protective measures....and here we have the Boy Scouts actively deciding it is worse to offend a gay man than to protect the young men in its ranks.

    God help us indeed.
     
  7. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,646
    Likes Received:
    223
    Not just immoral, but deviant.
     
  8. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    0
    If I Was a Betting Man....

    Aaron....the fact is that that kind of sin is the only one of a moral nature other than bestiality that God labels as an abomination. We should talk of it in NO LESS blunt terms...don't you think? Only I suspect that in the very NEAR future it will probably COST us something to speak out on this topic.
    If I were a betting man, I'd bet that there is not one single so-called "gay-rights" organization in this country that would be willing to allow or hear the testimony I have given above without extreme protest and strong attempts to silence it in the "court" of public opinion. You could probably include quite a few Christian (so-called) churches on that list as well with the present dat apostasy being what it is! They call us intolerant hate-filled bigots. Go figure. I'll be thankful that when I get to heaven those types of memories will likely be completely wiped away....I look forward to that day.

    Bro.Greg:praying:
     
    #8 Gregory Perry Sr., Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2013
  9. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe you are right on both points in bold above.

    For the dwindling numbers of churches who use the term abomination for this sin.... How long will it be before a pastor can be jailed for "hate speech" if he reads those verses aloud from a traditional Bible version?

    In another thread I mentioned that we had a college aged homosexual begin visiting our church. It soon became apparent that instead of spending time with young adults he wanted to be with pre-teens and early teens.

    Shortly thereafter, every person, who had anything to do with children's ministry had to undergo a background check. (The majority of our small church members.) Vote was taken by the congregation to install windows in the doors of every room where children gathered, if it didn't already have one. This, in part, was to meet insurance company requirements. In part, because this 20 something's preference for pre-teen companions made clear that additional steps had to be taken.

    --- A small country church in a rural and still rather conservative area where 50 years ago people didn't lock their doors at night. When the word "gay" meant being happy. When a rainbow meant remembering God's promise.

    Mont974x4, wonder why your "think about it" isn't mentioned far more often? We would not knowingly allow heterosexuals of either gender to be put into positions to compromise youth, in particular, of the opposite gender. Yet, it seems that we think nothing of putting those with a preference for those of their own gender into such opportunities. We can still stand opposed to the former, but woe be unto us, if we stand against the latter.

    Who would give a person trying to recover from alcholism a pint of whiskey? Or buy a carton of cigarettes for someone trying to quit smoking? Responsible people would not. Yet, so called responsible people are doing the equivalent when it comes to this abomination to God.
     
  10. JimmyH

    JimmyH
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the last days things will grow worse and worse. No surprises here. The god of this world (satan for those not familiar with the NT) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    In another thread a member is lamenting the violence celebrated in our popular culture's "entertainment." I don't go to movies so I cannot imagine what people are viewing there nor do I watch TV. Every now and again I am exposed to current 'sit-coms' on TV and the immorality and perversion that is promoted in them is unbelievable for someone who grew up in the 1950s and '60s.

    This business of allowing homosexuals and lesbians to adopt children, teach and now be active with the boy scouts is the logical progression of the general direction this country has been sliding towards for the past fifty years. How much longer our Lord will tolerate this Sodom & Gommorah no one knows the day or the hour but I wouldn't be surprised if He comes quickly.
     
  11. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm going to disagree with the above, not that practicing homosexuality is a sin, but rather that is in some different category than a man visiting a prostitute, or raping someone, or other immorality. ANY immorality is, by definition, a DEVIATION from God's holy purpose for us.

    ...And for Gregory: I don't know where you got your info, but Here are a few other things God's word says are and "abomination" :

    -Eating the meat of a peace offering on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
    -Eating lots of different unclean animals (Leviticus)
    -Graven images (Deut. 7:25)
    -a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wickendess, feet that run to mischief, false witness, sowing discord (Prov. 6: 15-17)
    -A false Balance (Prov. 11:1)
    -There's way more...

    I think this is important lest we begin to think ourselves above "those dirty homosexuals." We have all done things that are an abomination to God, that are immoral, that are deviant from God's good instructions for our lives.
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,646
    Likes Received:
    223
    Would you say that about pedophilia?

    The fact of the matter is, and the Scriptures bear this out, that men of inordinate and deviant apetites did not start out that way. They were conditioned through exposure to and the indulgence and satiation of their natural apetites.

    In heaven, yes, there is only good and evil, right and wrong, whole or corrupt. But in this world there are degrees of sin, and God prescribed degrees of punishment.

    One who is turned on by the same sex, or by some other unnatural, deviant means is worse off in this world than the man who divorced his wife for a young female hotty.
     
    #12 Aaron, Jan 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2013
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a current scoutmaster and the father of 4 scouts (3 boy, 1 girl) let me clarify a few of things.
    1. What the national organization is doing is removing the national ban on homosexual scouts and scout leaders. They are not saying that they are allowing them, that is strictly up to the local units.
    2. Boy Scouts operate under an organization similar to the Baptist church’s congregational leadership style. Each local troop or pack has a sponsoring organization. That organization might be a fire department or a lions club or whatever. Because of the former national ban, military and government organizations were prohibited from sponsoring units but groups of parents can form a group that does. Most, not all, but most sponsoring organizations are churches. The largest single group of sponsoring organizations right now are United Methodist Churches, but many Baptist churches sponsor units as well. The LDS (Mormon) church as adopted the Boy Scouts as their official youth organization and almost every LDS temple now sponsors a troop or pack.
    3. Individual sponsoring organizations can decide who they want as adult volunteers in their churches. Some of them even compensate leaders.
    4. If your church wants to sponsor a troop all they have to do is call the district and volunteers will be happy to help them get set up. If there is no scout troop in your area it is easy to start one and as the sponsoring organization you can decide who the leaders are. If you don’t want gay leaders that is fine. You can also use the troop to preach the gospel and beliefs of your church. It’s your troop you can do what you want. The LDS church certainly does.
    5. With that said, if your children are in scouts you need to look at the sponsoring organization and what their rules are. My troop is currently sponsored by a Methodist Church and I am fine with that. Years ago we were part of a troop sponsored by a Lutheran church and it was great also. If you live in an area with a large openly gay population you want to make sure what the organizations stand is, it is now up to them.
    6. Like all youth organizations the Boy Scouts attract sexual predators who would pray on our children. We take steps to protect them just like you should with a Sunday School or Bus route. Background checks, youth protection training, two deep leadership, and a variety of policies are in place to protect your children. Ask any scout leader, they will be happy to explain them.

    So where might this change in the national ban affect you? Well if you attend national or even council events there may be some scouts or leaders there who are openly homosexual. That’s it. We are not a Christian nation or world and there are homosexuals around us. I am not defending them or their choices but if you can’t tolerate the world being around you crawl back in your cave. If we are going to reach the world, or any part of it, we have to be in the world.

    In my years as a scout master I have seen many boys and entire families brought to Christ through our organization. Some of our best preachers are the boys themselves. If you have never overheard one teen ager leading another to Christ you’re missing out. No, Scouts are not a Baptist or fundamental organization and there is variety from troop to troop just like there is from church to church. But I am still proud to be a part of it.
     
  14. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm sorry I see no difference. Removing the ban is allowing homosexual men and opportunity to prey on our kids.

    This is a failure in leadership at the top. It places our kids at risk. It places every organization willing to host/sponsor a troop in danger of more lawsuits.

    It is surely a sign of the times we live in.
     
  15. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    It does not. It's an orientation. Orientations aren't sinful. If they are committing acts that God says to not commit, THEN they are sexually immoral.

    I would hope not in today's atmosphere. But in today's atmosphere, it's probably not a good idea to leave kids of either sex alone with one adult individual.

    That's assuming that homosexual men /heterosexual men are going to be attracted to little kids. It just simply isn't the case. But I'm a firm believer that no one adult of either sex needs to be left alone with kids of either sex.


    Interesting considering you said what you said. Why not put the same measures in place in the Scouts where no one person, gay or straight, is ever alone with a kid?

    But on the flip side I for one don't quite understand why an organization that has prided itself on its moral stance for decades NOW suddenly decides it's not that big of an issue that they will now accept openly gay scout leaders.

    He's the only one Who can. And He wants to. But the Church ain't repenting.
     
  16. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    It is crazy. But shouldn't the Church expect this kind of behavior out of the world? Our response needs to be loud and clear: No matter what the President says. No matter what the ACLU says. No matter what the Boy Scouts say. God is STILL on His throne, and He is still God ALONE.

    The acts are sinful. Always have been and always will be until God does away with it.

    We need to be preaching repentance in the Church and getting ourselves right in order to combat this wickedness with the time God is forbearingly giving us.
     
  17. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't forget to keep in context the NT's teachings. :flower: For example, it's not what a man puts in his mouth that defiles him....

    Also, keep in mind that we are to repent and beg for forgiveness when we sin. We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Even though we have our own struggles, does that mean that we should CONDONE willful sinful acts of others because of our own failures? I eat too much and need to lose weight. Because of that failure of mine, should I endorse a church treasurer who is an acknowledged, unrepentent, embezzler?

    When leaders, whether of the church or secular organizations, move from a stance of opposition to a sinful behaviour to accepting same, then there's something wrong. Something that goes well beyond being self-rightous, holier than thou.

    IMO, any act that signifies acceptance, endorsement, condoning, approval, of the OP topic abomination is a sin itself. Yes, I am a sinner. I struggle everyday. However, until the Holy Spirit leads me otherwise, I cannot use my sin as an excuse to endorse a behavior that is an abomination to God in any manner. Pray for them, yes. Minister to them, as we are to minister to all human beings created by God, yes. Put them into leadership positions over children. NO!

    Back to the OT. :flower: How many times were the Hebrews punished for not tearing down the groves in high places? Even thought they couldn't individually keep all 600+ tenents of the Law, as a people they were required to have no other gods before them. Over time, their failure to destroy those places led to them approving/endorsing them, which led to their downfall as a people. Are we not on the same path?
     
  18. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    AMEN!:applause:
     
  19. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    I agree with everything you said.:applause: But again the problem is the CHURCH. After saying what you said about condoning, we've still got folks who have not repented for endorsing either of those anti-Christ who are against God for the position of the nation's leader.

    The Church has GOT to be consistent.

    So yes we can speak to the Church or any of God's people signifying acceptance, endorsing, approving, condoning of THIS sin.

    But have we said the same about other sin. And again, I hate to harp on politics, but plenty of folks on this board and in the Church gave tacit acceptance, endorsement, approval, condoning to two men who both seem to reject Jesus Christ.

    Has there been repentance from the CHURCH?

    evil continues to run rampant like this because the Church's lack of repentance binds the Holy Spirit's ability to work and restrain.
     
  20. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220

    I don't think that we should be so naive as to not see what is taking place. Whatever may take place at the local level, the perception is that it's okay to now accept homosexual scouts and leaders and the local organizations have the national organizations okay to do so.

    If this were not the case, there would have never been any reason for the national organization to defend its "ban stance" in the first place.
     

Share This Page

Loading...