God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rstrats, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. rstrats

    rstrats
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    0
    If there is anyone that believes this, how do you reconcile the contradiction?
     
  2. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    Omniscient: One having total knowledge.
    Jesus said only he Father knows when the end will come. Jesus had is own will, but only did what He saw the Father do.
     
  3. rstrats

    rstrats
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    0
    So the question doesn't apply to you. I am hoping to hear from someone that it does apply to.
     
  4. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3
    Jesus, in His fleshly body, fulfilled the will of the Father; He died for sinners. Jesus could not do this in His spiritual body, He being sinless(sin is what brings forth death). He was made a little lower than the angels in that He tasted death for every man(still sinless, but became sin when He took all sins of all time upon Himself, nailing them to the cross upon Himself{"scapegoat" in Leviticus 16}). So, apparently in His flesh, there were things He didn't know? But being seated in heaven, on the right hand of the Father, I think He knows all things now. This is what I have thought, though I am not 100% dogmatic about it.
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,084
    Likes Received:
    205
    You make this statement in the present tense "IS"! Therefore, it is false!

    If you had made it in the past tense while Christ lived on earth it would be correct.

    The name "Jesus" was given to name the human baby conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary. Jesus as a man grew in knowledge and thus was not omniscient. Jesus as a man confessed that He did not know the precise hour and day of his own coming.

    However, Jesus was also God in the flesh or "the God with us" - Immanuel and as Immanuel he was also at the same time in heaven (Jn. 3:13) because He was omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient! The humanity of Christ could not be diety without ceasing to be humanity and vice versa. Thus humanity has imposed limitations in order to be humanity.

    The glorified Christ is still man and God. The Glorified Christ still has a human body that is not omnipresent but the human spirit and soul of Christ is no longer limited by finite understanding and knowledge. Because those mental limitations were imposed upon him while in an unglorified state.
     
  6. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can't argue with that.
     
  7. Melanie

    Melanie
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes Received:
    5
    Watching with deep interest......
     
  8. rstrats

    rstrats
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Biblicist,

    re: "If you had made it in the past tense while Christ lived on earth it would be correct.

    So you're saying that it would be correct if the statement had said: "God was omniscient, Jesus was God, but Jesus was not omniscient"?
     
    #8 rstrats, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  9. marke

    marke
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    0
    God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct and yet the same God. I don't think God can be understood in human terms. Php. 2 describes the incarnation of God the Son, Jesus Christ, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he hunbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death ofn the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name; That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (verses 6-11).

    God the Son took upon Himself a human body and humbled Himself in His earthly mission, yet He declared Himself equal with God and God the Father commanded all creatures to worship God the Son, who is exalted above all things everywhere, in heaven and earth and beyond. There is no separating God the Father and God the Son in worshipping the one true God of heaven.
     
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,084
    Likes Received:
    205
    "God is omniscient, Jesus is God but Jesus was not omniscient but now is omniscient"
     
  11. rstrats

    rstrats
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Biblicist,

    re: ""God is omniscient, Jesus is God but Jesus was not omniscient but now is omniscient"

    So you’re saying that the Messiah was not God when He was on earth?
     
  12. rstrats

    rstrats
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was hoping that I wouldn’t have to bring up the background for asking the topic question since it may send the "discussion" off on a different issue. However, it looks like it may be helpful to do so.

    A poster on another forum concerning the ability of a person to consciously choose to believe things - I don’t believe that it is possible - said that it is possible to believe contradictory things at the same time - something that I also don’t believe is possible. I asked for an example of that. The poster came back with" "God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient".

    My mind isn’t currently working up to its normally razor sharp analytical potential so I thought that I might possibly get some ideas here for countering that example.
     
    #12 rstrats, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,084
    Likes Received:
    205
    Let me reword your statement to express what I mean:

    "God is omniscient, Jesus was and is God, but Jesus was not omniscient during his earthly existence in regard to his humanity as limitations were imposed by his deity upon his humanity, but now his human mind is omnsicient in regard to his humanity as the mental limitations on his humanity are now lifted."

    His humanity was not diety and never will be diety as that is what makes him God in the flesh (Immanuel). Neither will his humanity ever be anything more than humanity. Thus while on the earth he grew in physical maturity and in wisdom and knowledge.

    Here is the key issue. Even though his humanity was limited on earth His diety enabled his humanity to surpass what other humans could do or think - walk on water, walk through angry crowds, etc. Even on earth his diety enabled his human mind to exceed the natural limits of humanity (John 2:24-25) as he could read the minds of men and without theological training understand and interpret the scriptures far beyond the most trained human minds. Nevertheless, while on earth his human mind was limited and such limitations were abritrarily imposed upon his humanity by his diety.

    However, in heaven those limits have been lifted and now his diety operates fully through his humanity without mental limitations.
     
    #13 The Biblicist, Dec 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011

Share This Page

Loading...