God Is!

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by th1bill, Oct 13, 2010.

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Is the Bible, all of it, the Word of God?

  1. No

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  2. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    90.0%
  3. Maybe

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  1. th1bill

    th1bill
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    There is a mystery that should not be! From the time, just before, I became a Christian I have been aware of the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life and when I teach that truth or when someone will ask me how I know that I am correct about this or that point of scripture and I tell them, "I know it because the Holy Spirit teaches me that it is this way,” I am hit with, Do not try to invoke the Holy Spirit on me,” or, "Don't you dare get holier than thou with me!” Folks "claiming the name of Christ for themselves” seem not to know the Spirit that, if saved, is resident in their very life from moment to moment. (John 14:16, chap. 15:26 and chap.16:7-15)


    When I was a lost man I believed the Holy Spirit to be, just, another ghost story but for a person to claim the name of Christ and then to,not, know the Holy Spirit is illogical form, even, the World's point of view. When we have read Acts 2 one of two things exist in our lives, immediately! Either we know that the disciples were indwelt by the Holy Spirit or we do not believe the whole Word of God!


    For those that do not believe the entire Bible to be the Word of God, I find them to be in dire straits. Omnipotence is one trait that belongs, only, to God. Our Omnipotent God is the Living God, the God with no beginning and with no end. God is so, unimaginably, powerful that He spoke and where there had been nothing, there suddenly was everything... the Earth, the Moon, the Sun, millions of stars, billions of planets, moons, stars... everything. Not only did He create everything... it is He that manipulates and holds it all in place! (Psalm 104) There is no-one like God!


    But some believe that men have overridden the Will of God and have polluted the Word of God, the scriptures. Others believe that the Bible has been mistranslated by men. That would require that, either, God be strong and powerful enough to sustain the positioning of the planets, stars and moons but not be strong enough to prevent men from polluting His Word to us.


    Some claiming the name of Christ have told me that the Word of God can be found in the Bible but not all of the Bible is the Word of God. This idea not only contradicts the Holy Spirit that in-fills me bu creates it's own set of problems. First John 1:1-3 cannot be true, were this heresy true but if this is true and the Holy Spirit of God does not in-fill and indwell the Saved man, who is qualified to stamp this or that portion as the Word of God and to void or ignore the rest? We, people, have already crucified God in the flesh, some two thousand years ago and if that is not true... all is useless, there can be no salvation!


    The truth is that, except we believe, we cannot be saved! Also, the truth is that God is!
     
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    The Bible is not the Word of God, however, the Bible is the word of God.

    Word of God = Jesus
    word of God = Bible
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    while I did vote yes I now need to explain. In the original texts the word was all of God, but in today's translations I realize that there is some error small as it may be. When teaching I try and pont those places out when possible.
     
  4. glfredrick

    glfredrick
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    We're having freeatlast's debate on another thread...

    This question seems to be is the entire Bible God's Word or not?

    If not, where does one draw the line?

    I've spent the past 25 years in intensive study, including learning Greek and Hebrew. I've read over 200 books dealing with the subject of the Bible, canon of Scripture, hermeneutics, etc. I have NO CLUE where one would draw the line between a Bible that "has some of God's words in it" and a Bible that is "God's Word."

    We don't have to get into a fine-tuned discussion of translation issues, KJVO, etc., in order to say that. If we do, are we not then deciding that SOME of what is in the Bible is actually NOT God's Word?
     
  5. Winman

    Winman
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    I voted yes. I believe the KJB is the inerrant and preserved (complete) Word of God in English. I believe any translation faithful to the same text used for the KJB would be the inerrant Word of God in that language.

    I do not believe the versions based on the Critical Text are the inerrant Word of God.
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    It depends on what YOU mean when you say, "bible".

    If you are referring to the King James Version or ANY version the answer is simply- no.

    They are VERSIONS OF THE WORD OF GOD.

    If you read Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables" in English, are you reading the words of Victor Hugo?

    No, you are not. You are reading an English translation of the words of Victor Hugo. In point of fact the translator may indeed have poorly translated some of Hugo's remarks from French to English. You cannot hold the English VERSION OF Hugo's work in your hand and say honestly- "I hold in my hands the very words of Victor Hugo." The simple FACT is that it is not the words of Victor Hugo.

    Now, if, on the other hand, you mean by the term "bible" that truth has been preserved by God- that he has walked his word down through the ages and has made certain any part of it has not been destroyed- that we have in the plethora of manuscripts brilliantly and perfectly preserved the Words of God-

    If that is what you mean by the Bible, then YES, we have the very Word of God today.

    It is also important to note that good translations communicate the Word of God to us. Good translations, like the King James, are filled with the Word of God in the sense of it's message and truth. Good translations are reliable and dependable just as a good translation of "Les Miserables" would be.
     
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Then you deny that the translating of the KJB is the works of men? You purport a new doctrine that the KJB is a version without error perfectly translated via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

    This is a new doctrine that the church has never believed before. It is literally a newer doctrine than the UPC doctrine of tongues being necessary for salvation.

    This is a dangerous thing to do to go around willy nilly creating new doctrines that the church in two thousand years has never believed.

    Even the KJV translators did not believe it.

    This is a dangerous practice that is on the rise the past 75-100 years.
     
  8. Winman

    Winman
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    I have never said the KJB translators were inspired. In fact, I have repeatedly said they were not.

    I believe the scriptures were preserved in the Received Text the KJB translators used to make their translation. I personally do not believe the Critical text to be the preserved and inerrant text.

    I do believe that God is still active in the affairs of man, and that God brought about the Reformation and the earlier translations. I believe the KJB translators were probably the best group of scholars concerning the ancient Hebrew, Greek, and Aramiac ever assembled and that they did an excellent and accurate job of translating the original langauages from the correct texts.

    The issue is not translation. Some of the MVs are very good translations. My pastor said the NASB is an "excellent translation", only it is a translation of a corrupt text. He said the NIV is a very poor translation of a corrupt text.

    The Critical Text and Received Text cannot both be the preserved and inerrant Word of God. The Critical Text is missing nearly 3000 words in the Greek text, nearly 200 complete verses, and several complete passages. Either the Critical Text has taken away from God's word, or the Received Text has added to it (both of which are strictly forbidden in the scriptures), but they cannot both be preserved and inerrant.

    If the Critical Text provides 90% of God's word and omits 10%, then it is neither preserved or inerrant. But that is not the only issue, in some verses the Critical Text and Received Text are completely different and contradict each other.

    If someone tried to sell you a '65 Mustang and said it was completely preserved, and then you found it was missing the engine, the transmission, and all the doors, would you buy it? I wouldn't. And would you believe the salesman if he argued that all the parts that were there were original, so this car was completely preserved? Only a fool would fall for a story like that.

    [​IMG]

    Here you go, here is a preserved 65 Mustang I have for sell. Don't tell me it isn't preserved, all the parts on this baby are 100% original. And I'm only asking $30,000 for it!
     
    #8 Winman, Oct 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2010
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    No, no. You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth dear brother.

    You said the "KJB is the inspired infallible word of God". That is what you said. Plain and simple.

    Then you come over the top of that and say that it is not about the translation but about the text. Which is it?

    Is the Kjb the inspired word of God or not?

    We can't deal with this other stuff about the differences between the texts until you pick a concrete position on whether or not the "KJB is the inspired word of God".

    If you believe that versions are inspired then you believe a new doctrine introduced by, what I believe, are ignorant people with sincere intentions. But ignorant people with sincere intentions have been responsible for some of the greatest travesties in human history.

    Many people have legitimate differences on the texts and have through the ages. But this idea that the "KJB is the inspired, infallible word of God" is fringe, near cultist type doctrine.

    Versions are not inspired nor infallible. Do you agree or disagree?
     
  10. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife
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    :thumbs: Winman!

    Please read Winman's post carefully Luke....it doesn't say "KJB is the inspired infallible word of God". What the above post does say is "I voted yes. I believe the KJB is the inerrant and preserved (complete) Word of God in English." The KJB is a translation into the English language from the Received Greek text and Masoretic Hebrew text which are inerrant and preserved.
     
    #10 Fred's Wife, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2010

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