God, logic and His attributes

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Isaiah40:28, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28
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    This is part of Alex's response to me from the "Who did Jesus Die for?" thread.

    I wanted to ask about God's attributes and if they limit Him?
    Also is God above logic?

    I've been doing some reading in response to Alex's post and I'm learning a lot about logic and God's attributes.

    I've bolded the parts of his response that I wondered about.

    Anybody have any thoughts about any of these things?
     
  2. MB

    MB
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    I have to agree with scripture and it plainly tells us that all things are possible with God.
    Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

    Even the Salvation of rich men is possible. I thank God that He is limitless.
    MB
     
  3. TCGreek

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    1. God acts in tune with His very nature. Do we understand the true, inexhaustible nature of God? No. (Rom 11:33-36).

    2. Logic is a human venture to understand what is. God is the author of what is. Therefore, logic can never be above God. Rather, God is the true source of correct reasoning that terminates on God and His glory.
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    Logic is not something humans create; logic
    is something that God created that humans discover.

    Logic is a branch of Mathematics; Mathematics is
    something that God created that humans discover.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    Isaiah40:28: //I wanted to ask about God's attributes and if they limit Him?//

    Yes:
    Several of God's attributes limit Him to being unlimited.

    No:
    Several of God's attributes limit our understanding of His
    attributes.
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    I would sit up and listen attentively to Alex, Isaiah40:28.

    You see ?

    He already taught you a word you probably never knew about: Divine.

    He's brilliant. Yeah.

    I'll bet you had no idea such a word exists, much less what it means. It took Alex to teach you. He's the man.
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    Titus 1:2 says God cannot lie. God operates freely within his nature and attributes because he must. To operate outside his nature would be an impossibility.

    God is immutable. He does not change. He cannot change because to do so would nullify his immutability.

    I think we are all uncomfortable in saying that God "cannot" do something. But Paul doesn't mind saying so to Titus, so neither should we.
     
  8. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    First I would and do ask, which logic? Our logic? Well, I would say that God is at times SEPARATE from our logic. And please, do not misunderstand me. I am fully aware that God in His Divine design created us with minds that function in certain ways and God Himself promotes rational thinking. The Proverbs are filled with such reflections and principles. And our theological conclusions could not be drawn without the capacity for and the broad application of logic.

    But where logic is limited I believe we must cede. For example. God is omniscient. What is omniscience? Well we know it is knowing all things that can be known at all times (or any similar definitions but you get the point without stopping to split hairs). But can we completely comprehend omniscience? No. It is impossible to know what it is like to hear all sounds by all creatures and understand and perceive all actions by all creatures, never minding just humans, and all potential actions by all elements whether fulfilled or possible simultaneously (and every other thing that comes with omniscience of which I could never write enough if I had eternity).

    Though our human capacity for logic can understand this as a reality and appreciate it in many ways as evidenced by rich theological systems derived from the Scriptures, we are limited to comprehending its full effects and interactions and cannot draw absolute resolutions that need no further illumination. If we could define and understand it as such, we would be DIVINE. This is not to say we cannot define some certainties of omniscience.

    Yes, we can know MANY boundaries of omniscience and many FUNCTIONS but we cannot determine logically, all, simply because our capacity to know and understand OMNISCIENCE is humanly limited, particularly here on earth. SO at some point our logic is limited.

    There are times something does defy logic in the work of God. Not because GOD is illogical or above logic but SEPARATE from logic in the sense that He is more than that but all of that.

    I do realize that what I have said, myself, may appear a bit lacking in definitive terms and maybe someone might accuse me of being obtuse or deliberately avoiding giving a direct answer, and if so I understand why they might believe that but trust me, I am not avoiding any direct answer here and am quite earnest.
     
  9. npetreley

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    :laugh: :laugh: ........
     
  10. skypair

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    This is "dogma" -- something accepted without understanding. Do you mean to say that God created angels and Adam to have capabilities that God Himself did not have? Of course God COULD sin. He doesn't because He knows the consequences of sin and they are not "expedient" as Paul would say!

    skypair
     
  11. Helen

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    Sin is rebellion against God. Can God be in rebellion against Himself? Of course not!

    As far as logic goes, God is supremely logical: "Come, let us reason together," says the Lord -- in Isaiah 1.

    Jesus told the woman at the well, "God is Spirit." Thus, can God be NOT a Spirit? No, for that is His identity. He cannot be other than what He is, whether we understand Him or not, or however much we think we can comprehend about Him.
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    I really hope this is sarcasm.
     
  13. Jarthur001

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    This shows you have poor understanding of what sin is. God could never sin, for if God does it, no matter what the action is, it is not sin. How can God transgress His will, when it is He that wills to do it????
     
  14. David Lamb

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    I wonder how you would define "sin", then, Skypair, if you believe it to be something that God could (if He so wished) definitely engage in?
     
  15. MB

    MB
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    There isn't a thing God can't do however there are things He won't do. Huge difference between "can't do" and "won't do"
    MB
     
  16. TCGreek

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    We are seeing the true nature of human logic on display.
     
  17. MB

    MB
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    Hi David,
    I know when Christ was on the earth as a man He was tempted. How is it He was tempted to do that which was impossible. Is that really temptation? I just don't see how it could be. Seems like trying to breathe oil instead of air. No one is tempted to try such a thing because we already know it's unbreathable.
    MB
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

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    No kidding eh? Sometimes I just shake my head at some of the things people write here. Some it is, well, just disgusting.
     
  19. J.D.

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    There is a difference between faulty logic and sound logic. God is perfectly logical. 1 + 1 = 2 is perfectly logical. There is a logical order to the universe which God authored.

    God can not be illogical, nor allogical. He can contradict nature, or superseded it, but He can not destroy the logical order of the universe without destroying the universe itself. He can not make 1 + 1 = 3. He can combine two entities into one new entity, such as two made one flesh in marriage, or Jew and Gentile being one new man (church), but two entities must always be two entities.

    The same thing can be said of rationality. God is perfectly rational. An atheist is a "fool" - an irrational person. The fact that man is plagued with his own irrationality does not mean that God and the "things of God" are either illogical, allogical, or irrational.
     
  20. npetreley

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    LOL! God can sin? God can disobey Himself? :eek: :laugh:
     

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