God on Earth? King of Kings?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Rakka Rage, Jun 12, 2003.

  1. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    "The pope alone is deservedly called by the name 'most holy,' because he
    alone is the vicar of Christ, who is the fountain and source and fullness of
    all holiness. . . . 'He is likewise the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and
    king of kings.' . . . Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of
    heaven
    and of earth and of the lower regions. . . . Moreover the superiority
    and the power of the Roman Pontiff by no means pertain only to heavenly things,
    to earthly things, and to things under the earth, but are even over angels,
    than whom he is greater. . . . So that if it were possible that the angels
    might err in the faith, or might think contrary to the faith, they could be
    judged and excommunicated by the pope. . . . For he is of so great dignity and
    power that he forms one and the same tribunal with Christ. . . .

    "The pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of
    Christ, chief king of kings, having plenitude of power, to whom has been
    intrusted by the omnipotent God direction not only of the earthly but also of
    the heavenly kingdom
    . . . . The pope is of so great authority and power that he
    can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws."
    [24]

    [24] Translated from Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, art, "Papa," II,
    Vol. VI, pp. 26-29.
     
  2. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rakka,

    I kindly ask you to post the entire contents of pages 26-29 so that I can fill in the elipses. I have tried to find those pages online, but have come up unsuccessful.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  3. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Catholic Catechism:

    936. " The Lord made St. Peter the visible foundation of his Church. He entrusted the keys of the Church to him. The bishop of the Church of Rome, successor to St. Peter, is 'head of the college of bishops , the divine institution and divine institution ' [CIC, can. 331.]."

    937. "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution , 'supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls' (CD 2)."

    By the way, Rakka, who did the translation from the latin of the document? I wonder how good and accurate a translation it is.

    God Bless

    [ June 12, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
  4. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
  5. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, I'm looking at the Latin right now, as well as an English translation, and attempting my own translation.

    This is a melting pot of quotes, out of order, and freely mixed. If you want to discern what was MEANT to be said, read the original, and do not pick selective quoting, nor trust what is labeled as an admittedly "rough English translation" (not by Rakka, but by the same author of the site he was advocating in the last Pope/antiChrist thread).

    I will also mention that this writer is known to be lax in his writing (uncontrollable, not strict, etc).

    And, of course, the "vicar of the Son of God" that is found in this work is, again, nothing but a requoting from the Donation of Constantine (point 20).

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  6. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    I posted this apparently at the same time as Rakka, before seeing his post, hense any discrepencies.

    I do question why you put your trust in admittedly rough translation. Some of these websites even translate "under the earth" as "purgatory." Unless you are an expert in Latin, and I'm certainly not, you're putting your trust in the author of this website, not the actual meaning of the document, which from what I can tell, is still overly superflous.

    God bles,

    Grant
     
  7. thessalonian

    thessalonian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why quibble. Some of the language of De Monfort on Mary is of this nature also. It seems extreme to those who have no eyes to see, nor ears to hear. We know from Matt 16 and Matt 18 that when the Pope and the Bishops bind and loose so does God. "WHATEVER you bind on earth SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN". If God is honoring his bindings and loosing then I certainly would think twice befor I would go against them. It is not that the Pope is God but that God acts through the Pope and honors papal orders. While I wouldn't use this language, I can see where one might. Submission and obedience is just something you will never understand Rak.
     
  8. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree.

    937. "The Pope enjoys, by divine institution , 'supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls' (CD 2)." (CD 2)."

    He's got the keys.

    [ June 12, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
  9. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    i submit to and obey the King of Kings... not his satanic counterfit, "king of kings". to God, not to "god on earth"

    ----------------------------------------

    Lucius Ferraris wrote, Prompta Bibliotheca in 1755, he gave under
    the article 'Papa,' the title, Vicarius Filii Dei, and cited the revised canon
    law as his authority. When his work was revised and published in Rome in 1890,
    the document and aforementioned title were retained! Moreover, the Catholic
    Encyclopedia says his work, 'will ever remain a precious mine of information'
    (1913, vol. 6, p.48).
     
  10. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Only a megalomaniac would desire such an office
     
  11. thessalonian

    thessalonian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    "i submit to and obey the King of Kings... not his satanic counterfit, "king of kings". to God, not to "god on earth""

    No Rak, you submit to yourself and no one else really. You showed that with your other thread in which you put sola scriptura aside in order to "show" that the Pope was the antichrist with no biblical basis for using the roman numeral approach you employed. Whatever works is the game. You don't fool anybody.


    Blessings though
     
  12. thessalonian

    thessalonian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or a man called by God such as JP II.
     
  13. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    thes, what does this mean? explain

    you do not even know what Sola Scriptura is or if i practice it.

    more gibberish

    ***attack removed***

    [ June 12, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     
  14. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm looking at the Latin right now, and he cites "Constantinus," and does not give it as a title, but quotes from the Donation of Constantine "vicarius Filii Dei," again, with no capitilization of "vicarius," and thus impossible to call it a "TITLE." Just read where I just quoted you, and look at how you capitalize "Vicarius." Why do you do that, when it is not in the original text? I'm a son of God, but I wouldn't thus equivicate that I am the "Son of God."

    Why would it not be? He was quoting someone else.

    Moreover, the Catholic Encyclopedia says his work, 'will ever remain a precious mine of information'
    (1913, vol. 6, p.48). [/QB][/QUOTE]

    The full quote is:

    "which will ever remain a precious mine of information, although it is sometimes possible to reproach the author with laxism."

    Completely different meaning, and holds true that his languague is overly extravagant and often seeminly out of control (the definition of laxism).

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  15. thessalonian

    thessalonian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    "you do not even know what Sola Scriptura is or if i practice it."

    True enough that I don't know your particular definition of it so you might be right about me not knowing what it is (according to your definition). As for your practicing it, your bio says your baptist so it is not unreasonable to assume that you practice some form of it.


    Bless ya Rak

    [ June 12, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     
  16. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyone who would call someone other than Jesus Christ Himself "king of kings" is an admitted antichrist. Period.
     
  17. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then I guess your beef is with Lucius Ferraris, and not the Pope/Papacy.

    God bless you,

    Grant
     
  18. Rakka Rage

    Rakka Rage
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    WHO DOES THE POPE CLAIM TO BE?

    The following is a brief outline of some of the claims of the Pope. These are facts which should be studied and their implications thought through very carefully indeed. There is no misrepresentation - Rome speaks for herself.

    1) "We the Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland, prostrate at the feet of your Holiness, humbly offer you our warmest congratulations on the occasion of the Golden Jubilee of your ordination to the priesthood… our thoughts go back to that great event fifty years ago by which your Holiness was taken from amongst men and appointed for men in the things that pertain to God, was made a minister of Christ and a dispenser of His mysteries, received power over the real and mystical body of our Saviour and became a mediator between God and man - another Christ." Address to Pope Pius Xll in 1949:-

    Note: Although we are including these offending words ("a mediator between God and men - another Christ") in relation to the Pope…if you read the address carefully, they actually refer to him as a mere priest…and so is believed of every priest including your local "Father" But they do but "set the scene" for the blasphemies to come.

    2) Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: "We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God." (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c.3)

    3) The Lateran Council addressing Pope Julius II in an oration delivered by Marcellus said: "Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth." (Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618)

    4) Pope Nicholas said of himself: "I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ." (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

    5) The RC New York catechism states: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth."

    6) The title "Lord God the Pope" - these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII Cum. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

    Father A. Pereira acknowledged: "It is quite certain that Popes have never disapproved or rejected this title "Lord God the Pope" for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome by Gregory XIII."

    Writers on Canon Law say: "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Barclay Cap. XXVII p. 218 Cities Petrus Bertanous, Pius V)

    7) Pope Nicholas I declared that "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." (Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can 7 Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para)

    8) Speaking the name of the Pope (a rhetorical device) Cardinal Manning said: "I acknowledge no civil superior, I am the subject of no prince, and I claim more than this, I claim to be the supreme judge on earth and director of the consciences of men, I am the last supreme judge of what is right and wrong." (Sermon in the Pro Cathedral, Kensington, Tablet Oct 9, 1864)

    Two Scriptures come to mind as I read these various claims of the Pope.

    [1] "…Simon…bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that he was some great one…" (Acts 8:9)

    [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:2-4)

    A WORD TO ROMAN CATHOLIC READERS:

    We do not write these things in hatred of you or your co religionists. All we have done is highlight the teaching of your church. The fact that these things are not much talked about today does not render them obsolete or untrue. Rome has her own reasons for keeping them back - but they still constitute the claims which your church makes. If they horrify you as they horrify me…then is it not time that you considered your position? To remain inside is to endorse by your presence these claims. God says: "Come out of her my people that ye be not partaker of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4) We are not asking you to become a Protestant i.e. to merely embrace a party name or to fight a party war. Millions of sincere church going Protestants are damned because they "lack one thing" - a personal, saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Many years ago, Cardinal Manning said: "The Catholic Church is either the masterpiece of Satan or the Kingdom of the Son of God." Cardinal Newman acknowledged: "If not divinely appointed, it is doctrinally the essence of antichrist."

    These two high ranking and noted Roman clerics have stripped back the issue to the very wire. Read again and ponder the claims of the various Popes and answer the issue for yourself.

    God said:

    I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another… (Isaiah 42:8)

    THE END

    http://www.geocities.com/cfpchurch/pope.html
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Actually Rakka - your sources for the Rev 13:18 principle in God's Word and how it applies to the Title the RCC gave to Peter in "Donation of Constantine" (and then no less than 10 Popes SIGNED UP FOR) was EXCELLENT!!

    Nice Research! Excellent sources. Well established points. Details that formed a truly compelling argument.

    Thanks for the posts!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. Singer

    Singer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    0
    RakkaRage:

    You got about as much response from the RCC Club as I did when
    I mentioned that:

    There was saving faith before Catholicism was invented !!!

    **Just imagine that !!! There were literally thousands of souls saved before
    there were ever any denominational names given to churches. Catholicism
    does not stand alone in its exclusivity. Church sects have made the vile claim
    of harboring the "key" or the "only" way to heaven since time began.
    Each tries to claim and prove "firstness" or "appointment". While Christ has already
    made the claim and showed the proof of being the "Way", it seems ridiculous
    to attempt to overthrow THAT !!!
     

Share This Page

Loading...