God: Temporal? Atemporal? Supratemporal??

I've been reading John M. Frame's (Calvinist, BTW) book responding to the issue of "Open Theism." His 9th chapter tackles the philosophical and theological issue of God's existence in time or timeless (unchanging) or outside of time.

My thinking is that God can be more than one of those things, right? Where is God the Father? In the 3rd heaven -- no one has ever seen Him. He is "above" time able to see all time at once.

So where do we get the idea that God is temporal? Because of the Son, right? The Son is who the earth was created for. God in the Son is the One who deals with temporal matters, no? He was the "Angel of God" in the OT interjecting Himself into the human experience. It was He that walked with Adam in the Garden. It is Christ's Spirit that mediates with us daily and only knows of the future what the Bible offers to even us (John 1:50-51 was merely Jesus reference to "Jacob's ladder.")

So what is "changeless" and "omnipresent" about God? His Holy Spirit! His "wisdom!" It is seen in everything everywhere!! The gospel of God's Spirit is communicated by all of nature. His specific gospel was communicated to Adam in Gen 3:15 as the ultimate victory of the "seed of the woman" over "seed of the serpent" -- the OT "gospel of the kingdom." The specific gospel of the NT is the "gospel of Christ," the "Lamb of God."

So basically Calvinists and open theists are rejecting each others' opinions based upon faulty paradigms of what aspect of God is spoken of in diversely descriptive -- even seemingly contradictory -- texts!

skypair

 

I'm sorry...

I guess my "spaghetti" isn't cooked enough 'cause none of it seems to be "sticking to the wall," eh?

OK, doesn't this help answer the question "What does God know and when does He know it?" The whole "open theist" - "simple foreknowledge" - "middle-knowledge" - "Augustinian-Calvinist" debate on divine foreknowledge?

What if God, the Planner, is a 'Calvinist' God (knowing everything :laugh but Christ, the Creator and Administrator of the 'program' has only "open theist" knowledge, for instance?

Are we even "on the boil yet?" :type:

skypair

 

Ah! Sounds so inviting! Actually, we ARE coming up to your neck of the woods -- Newport, RI -- for family reunion next week. Coffee and panini sounds irresitible though.

Asiago bagels with ladles of butter? Are you trying to ruin my low choloresterol diet? Don't hink I don't detect your secret agenda, pinoy! :laugh:

skypair

 

it gets pretty involved, this issue of foreknowledge, doesn't it? And most will say that Molinism is closely allied with semi-Pelagianism.

I think we need to "dissect" foreknowledge and see how it works out for each Member of the trinity. Jesus clearly stated that it was not in His ability to know certain things -- the rapture date, for instance. Yet He said that God, the Father, does know when it will be. this leads one to believe that the Son has temporal foreknowledge but the Father has perfect, omniscient foreknowledge, no? I believe that if we believe in the trinity, we need to consider all its implications.

skypair

 

I'm considering a little bit different thought. See, if it is the Son that repented of creating the world, we would have one Person of the trinity who 1) learned things and 2) was changeable with mankind over time -- both of which we find in scripture.

Think about it. How do you explain these things appearing even pre-Christ? I believe that, rather than just pre-advent, perhaps the Son was self-limiting and temporal from "Alpha to Omega," from the time God began to create earth till the time it becomes His throne.

But then I have a compelling follow on idea that I've held for some time now -- that Father, Son, and Spirit will be One Person, not 3, in the New Earth/Kingdom of God as they once were before creation.

skypair

 

Well, it's a question that open theists ask (per my OP).

Let me ask you since you seem interested in resolving the issue -- could Christ be temporal God and the Father be supratemporal or "omni-temporal" as you suggest? Would this not answer to Calvinists and open theists at the same time?

skypair

 

Spit it out -- what words?

NOT! One God -- 3 Persons. That's what trinity means, in case you weren't up to speed on that.

Man, on the other hand, is a "triune" person -- 1 person, 3 natures (body, soul, spirit).

I'm thinking it is probably you who have misinterpretted most of what I have said, but I would hear you out. You have the floor. :type:

skypair