God's Presence and Jesus' Last Suffering

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Mark 15:33b
    Καὶ γενομένης ὥρας ἕκτης σκότος ἐγένετο ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης.
    And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

    Matthew 27:45
    Ἀπὸ δὲ ἕκτης ὥρας σκότος ἐγένετο ἐπὶ πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης.
    Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

    Luke 23:44,45 [Gn1:2 Ps91:1 Ex40:3; 10:21,22 Joel2:10,17]
    Καὶ ἦν ἤδη ὡσεὶ ὥρα ἕκτη καὶ σκότος ἐγένετο ἐφ’ ὅλην τὴν γῆν ἕως ὥρας ἐνάτης
    And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
    [Eks26:6-14; 30-36; 30:6; 31:7; 40:19-21,28,34,38]

    τοῦ ἡλίου ἐκλιπόντος, ἐσχίσθη δὲ τὸ καταπέτασμα τοῦ ναοῦ μέσον.
    And the sun was darkened and the veil of the temple was rent in the middle.
     
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    The three hours darkness while Jesus lived the death of death on the cross, had begun.
     
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    The ninth hour" until 'the twelfth hour(3 p.m. – 6 p.m.)

    Psalm 22:1,20-25

    Mark 15:34,35
    καὶ τῇ ἐνάτῃ ὥρᾳ ἐβόησεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς φωνῇ μεγάλῃ
    At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

    Elohim, Elohim, lama sabagthanei? dit is, geïnterpreteer:
    Ἐλωῒ Ἐλωῒ λαμὰ σαβαχθανεί; ὅ ἐστιν μεθερμηνευόμενον
    Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachtani? which is, being interpreted,

    Ὁ Θεός μου ὁ Θεός μου, εἰς τί ἐγκατέλιπές με;
    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    [Jn12:27,28; 17:1,4,5 Ps139:12,15,16]

    35 καί τινες τῶν παρεστηκότων ἀκούσαντες
    And some of them that stood by, when they heard, said,

    ἔλεγον Ἴδε Ἡλείαν φωνεῖ.
    Behold, he calleth Elias.

    Matthew 27:46,47
    περὶ δὲ τὴν ἐνάτην ὥραν ἀνεβόησεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς φωνῇ μεγάλῃ λέγων
    about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

    Ἡλεὶ Ἡλεὶ λεμὰ σαβαχθανεί; τοῦτ’ ἔστιν
    Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani?that is to say,

    Θεέ μου θεέ μου, ἵνα τί με ἐγκατέλιπες;
    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

    47 τινὲς δὲ τῶν ἐκεῖ ἑστηκότων ἀκούσαντες
    Some of that stood there, when they heard,

    ἔλεγον ὅτι Ἡλείαν φωνεῖ οὗτος.
    said, This man calleth for Elias.
     
    #3 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 23, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    The three hours darkness while Jesus lived the death of death on the cross, were over.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    John 19:28
    Μετὰ τοῦτο εἰδὼς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι ἤδη πάντα τετέλεσται,
    After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished,

    ἵνα τελειωθῇ ἡ γραφὴ, λέγει Διψῶ.
    that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

    [Ps51:7 Lv14:52 Hb9]

    John 19:29
    σκεῦος ἔκειτο ὄξους μεστόν· σπόγγον οὖν μεστὸν τοῦ ὄξους
    Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge

    ὑσσώπῳ περιθέντες προσήνεγκαν αὐτοῦ τῷ στόματι.
    with vinegar and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

    Mark 15:36
    δραμὼν δέ τις καὶ γεμίσας σπόγγον ὄξους περιθεὶς καλάμῳ
    And the one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and on a reed,

    ἐπότιζεν αὐτόν, λέγων Ἄφετε
    ... gave him to drink, saying, Let alone;

    ἴδωμεν εἰ ἔρχεται Ἡλείας καθελεῖν αὐτόν.
    let us see whether Elias will kom to take him down.

    Matthew 27:48,49
    καὶ εὐθέως δραμὼν εἷς ἐξ αὐτῶν καὶ λαβὼν
    And straightway one of them ran, and took

    σπόγγον πλήσας τε ὄξους καὶ περιθεὶς καλάμῳ
    a spunge ...filled with vinegar ...put around a reed

    ἐπότιζεν αὐτόν.49 οἱ δὲ λοιποὶ εἶπαν Ἄφες·
    and gave him to drink.49 The rest said, Let be,

    Ἴδωμεν εἰ ἔρχεται Ἡλείας σώσων αὐτόν.
    let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
     
    #5 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 23, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    The darkness had passed away; it was light again and everybody could immediately see and run again.
     
    #6 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 23, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    John 19:30
    ὅτε οὖν ἔλαβεν τὸ ὄξος ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Τετέλεσται,
    When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:

    καὶ κλίνας τὴν κεφαλὴν παρέδωκεν τὸ πνεῦμα.
    And he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    Mark 15:37
    ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἀφεὶς φωνὴν μεγάλην ἐξέπνευσεν.
    And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

    Matthew 27:50
    ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς πάλιν κράξας φωνῇ μεγάλῃ ἀφῆκεν τὸ πνεῦμα.
    Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.

    Luke 23:46
    καὶ φωνήσας φωνῇ μεγάλῃ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Πάτερ, εἰς χεῖράς σου
    And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands

    παρατίθεμαι τὸ πνεῦμά μου. τοῦτο δὲ εἰπὼν ἐξέπνευσεν.
    I commend my spirit; and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Jesus died when the darkness passed over and daylight set in again.
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Matthew 27:51b
    καὶ ἡ γῆ ἐσείσθη, καὶ αἱ πέτραι ἐσχίσθησαν,
    And the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.
    Matthew 27:52a
    καὶ τὰ μνημεῖα ἀνεῴχθησαν
    And the graves were opened

    [Hebrews 9:5 10:20]

    Matthew 27:51a
    Καὶ ἰδοὺ τὸ καταπέτασμα τοῦ ναοῦ ἐσχίσθη ἀπ’ ἄνωθεν ἕως κάτω εἰς δύο,
    And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom

    Mark 15:38
    Καὶ τὸ καταπέτασμα τοῦ ναοῦ ἐσχίσθη εἰς δύο ἀπ’ ἄνωθεν ἕως κάτω.
    And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    The veil was rent in the darkness when the darkness began, "the sixth hour".
    The veil was seen, rent, when the darkness had passed over and it was daylight again.
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Mark 15:39
    Ἰδὼν δὲ ὁ κεντυρίων ὁ παρεστηκὼς ἐξ ἐναντίας αὐτοῦ ὅτι οὕτως
    And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that

    ἐξέπνευσεν, εἶπεν Ἀληθῶς οὗτος ὁ ἄνθρωπος Υἱὸς Θεοῦ ἦν.
    He so ... gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

    Matthew 27:54
    Ὁ δὲ ἑκατόνταρχος καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτοῦ τηροῦντες τὸν Ἰησοῦν
    ...when the centurion and they that were with him watching Jesus,

    ἰδόντες τὸν σεισμὸν καὶ τὰ γινόμενα
    saw the earthquake and those things that were done,

    ἐφοβήθησαν σφόδρα, λέγοντες Ἀληθῶς Θεοῦ Υἱὸς ἦν οὗτος.
    they feared greatly, saying, Truly, this was the Son of God.

    Luke 23:47
    ἰδὼν δὲ ὁ ἑκατοντάρχης τὸ γενόμενον
    Now when the centurion saw what was done,

    ἐδόξαζεν τὸν Θεὸν λέγων Ὄντως ὁ ἄνθρωπος οὗτος δίκαιος ἦν.
    he glorified God, saying: Certainly this was a righteous man.
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Matthew 27:46Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
    Matthew wrote, "that is ...". Matthew interpreted or translated the words, 'lema sabachthani', to "mean, why have you forsaken me?"
    So what did Matthew mean with the word, --Greek, 'enkatélipes' - 'enkataleípoh'? ‘en’ – in / with; ‘katá’ – in virtue of / in proportion to; ‘leípoh-leípos’ – remainder / henceforth / finally; ‘katáloipos’ – legacy / remnant / remaining (chadal Gn42:33 yathar Is1:9 Ez12:16) “The rest of the blood he shall poor out at the bottom of the altar a sin offering” Lv5:9/10.
    I believe the translation with ‘forsake’ was unfortunate. The word is normally rendered, to ‘leave’. Jesus was given command --was given 'leave'-- to do the will of God, and to empty the cup of his suffering. He actually prayed the Father, “not my will (which was “to do Thy will, o God”) but Your will be done” in the end or climax. And Jesus PRAYED the Father that He might glorify the Father, and the Father might glorify Him. Even though it was Jesus' own will, He would have his will be his Father’s will. So now here Jesus is facing the full reality of the crisis of the cross, ‘YOUR will shall be done, my Father; THIS IS my hour, come, glorify Yourself in Me, fully.’ And the only way to glorify Himself for the Father is to “leave” the Son to do his will, perfectly.
    I understand more a ‘sanctification’ by the Father of the Son in this Scripture. He put the Son apart for holy purpose and end. “Why” or ‘What have you sanctified Me for, my Father? For that which I prayed you, for: “Not my will, but YOUR will, be done.”
    Jesus spoke with his Father; He gave his life into his Father's hands --- how could there have come a separation, one of abandonment, a forsaking of Jesus by the Father? Not at all! In fact, when Jesus had died, at that very moment in time, the veil which covered the Shekinah of God's Presence from human gaze, was torn in two from the top to the bottom ... and God's Presence LEFT THE TEMPLE and would on the cross and afterwards in Joseph's grave, go "COVER" the body of Jesus so that "his flesh would see no corruption in death", and He would be "in Thy sight always" / “before thy face always", "always" even in death!. “Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy Presence from the pride of man,” Ps31:20 “my times in thy hand” Ps31:15 “Thou hast brought up my soul FROM THE GRAVE.” Ps30:3 “In the time of trouble He shall hide Me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall He hide me..” Ps27:5.

    The darkness was the "Shadow"--'shekina'--"Presence of the Almighty" Psalm 91:1 and when Jesus died, daylight set in again. While Jesus still lived, He for no moment was 'forsaken' by his Father ---on the contrary.

    Then after Jesus had died and daylight for Him had become darkness, the Presence of the Almighty for Him became Light. Exodus 14:20; 16:10; 19:9. It was the Passover-Suffering of Yahweh. Job 3:6.
     

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