Good Non-Believers and Bad Christians

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Craigbythesea, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    There seems to be a teaching circulating around here that all non-Christians are bad people, and that all Christians are good people. However, that teaching is contradicted by many passages in the Bible. Let’s look at some of them.

    Phil. 3:4. although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
    5. circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
    6. as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

    In this passage, Paul tells us very clearly that as an unregenerate Jew in the flesh he was blameless “as to the righteousness which is in the Law.” How many Christians could truthfully say that they are blameless “as to the righteousness which is in the Law”?

    Gen. 6:9. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

    Gen. 7:1. Then the LORD said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time.”

    Job 1:8. The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

    1 Kings15:11. Asa did what was right in the sight of the LORD, like David his father.
    12. He also put away the male cult prostitutes from the land and removed all the idols which his fathers had made.
    13. He also removed Maacah his mother from being queen mother, because she had made a horrid image as an Asherah; and Asa cut down her horrid image and burned it at the brook Kidron.
    14. But the high places were not taken away; nevertheless the heart of Asa was wholly devoted to the LORD all his days.

    2 Kings18:1. Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.
    2. He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty- nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.
    3. He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.
    4. He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.
    5. He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.
    6. For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses.

    2 Kings 22:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Jedidah the daughter of Adaiah of Bozkath.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD and walked in all the way of his father David, nor did he turn aside to the right or to the left.

    2 Kings 23:24. Moreover, Josiah removed the mediums and the spiritists and the teraphim and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might confirm the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
    25. Before him there was no king like him who turned to the LORD with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; nor did any like him arise after him.

    2 Chron. 34:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of his father David and did not turn aside to the right or to the left.

    Matt. 23:35. so that upon you may fall the guilt of} all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

    Heb. 11:4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
    5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

    2 Peter 2:7. and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
    8. (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),
    9. then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
    10. and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.

    1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
    8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.


    1 Cor. 3:1. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
    2. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
    3. for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

    1 Cor. 8:11. For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
    12. And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

    1 Tim 5:20. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

    Heb. 12:1. Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
    2. fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


    Why did Saul of Tarsus and the above named good, righteous people need to be saved? Paul answers that question,

    Rom. 5:11. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
    12. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
    13. for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

    Regardless of the quality of the lives that we lived before we were saved by grace through faith, we were all born into this world culpable of the sin of Adam and, therefore, under the sentence of death!


    (All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)
     
  2. TCassidy

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    Could you please quote the posts making such assertions?
     
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  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    I wrote,

    “There seems to be a teaching circulating around here that all non-Christians are bad people, and that all Christians are good people.”

    I did NOT write that anyone was asserting anything (implications, etc., are not assertions).
     
  4. Internet Theologian

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    Seriously? Now I'm really confused.
     
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  5. Internet Theologian

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    I've not seen this, but the above seems self-contradictory from one sentence to the next.
     
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  6. SovereignGrace

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    Uhhhh...if he does he better be banned. We can't do that, remember? That's trolling.
     
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  7. SovereignGrace

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    CBTS stated this..

    And that's what the bible avers. If you hate it, that's your problem. The lost are God's enemies. They hate all things about God.
     
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  8. Martin Marprelate

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    That is half right. All non-Christians are bad people, but so, outside of Christ, are Christians. 'For all have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God.'
    Say, wasn't Paul the chap who described himself as the 'chief' of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15)?
     
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  9. SovereignGrace

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    Shhhhhhh!!! CBTS will give you a 'dumb'.
     
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  10. Craigbythesea

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    SovereignGrace says,

    But the Bible says,

    Gen. 6:9. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

    Gen. 7:1. Then the LORD said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time.”

    Job 1:8. The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

    1 Kings 15:11. Asa did what was right in the sight of the LORD, like David his father.
    12. He also put away the male cult prostitutes from the land and removed all the idols which his fathers had made.
    13. He also removed Maacah his mother from being queen mother, because she had made a horrid image as an Asherah; and Asa cut down her horrid image and burned it at the brook Kidron.
    14. But the high places were not taken away; nevertheless the heart of Asa was wholly devoted to the LORD all his days.

    2 Kings18:1. Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.
    2. He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty- nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.
    3. He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.
    4. He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.
    5. He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.
    6. For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses.

    2 Kings 22:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Jedidah the daughter of Adaiah of Bozkath.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD and walked in all the way of his father David, nor did he turn aside to the right or to the left.

    2 Kings 23:24. Moreover, Josiah removed the mediums and the spiritists and the teraphim and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might confirm the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
    25. Before him there was no king like him who turned to the LORD with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; nor did any like him arise after him.

    2 Chron. 34:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of his father David and did not turn aside to the right or to the left.

    Matt. 23:35. so that upon you may fall the guilt of} all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

    Phil. 3:4. although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
    5. circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
    6. as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

    Heb. 11:4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
    5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

    2 Peter 2:7. and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
    8. (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),
    9. then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
    10. and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.
     
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
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    But the bible says there are none righteous...NONE. They are only righteous by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
     
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  12. Internet Theologian

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    Lot's of Scriptures, thanks! Now what is your point from these Scriptures?
     
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  13. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    SovereignGrace says,

    There seems to be a teaching circulating around here that all non-Christians are bad people, and that all Christians are good people.

    But the Bible says,

    Gen. 6:9. These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

    Gen. 7:1. Then the LORD said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time.”

    Job 1:8. The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

    1 Kings 15:11. Asa did what was right in the sight of the LORD, like David his father.
    12. He also put away the male cult prostitutes from the land and removed all the idols which his fathers had made.
    13. He also removed Maacah his mother from being queen mother, because she had made a horrid image as an Asherah; and Asa cut down her horrid image and burned it at the brook Kidron.
    14. But the high places were not taken away; nevertheless the heart of Asa was wholly devoted to the LORD all his days.

    2 Kings18:1. Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.
    2. He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty- nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.
    3. He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.
    4. He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.
    5. He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.
    6. For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses.

    2 Kings 22:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Jedidah the daughter of Adaiah of Bozkath.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD and walked in all the way of his father David, nor did he turn aside to the right or to the left.

    2 Kings 23:24. Moreover, Josiah removed the mediums and the spiritists and the teraphim and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might confirm the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
    25. Before him there was no king like him who turned to the LORD with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; nor did any like him arise after him.

    2 Chron. 34:1. Josiah was eight years old when he became king, and he reigned thirty-one years in Jerusalem.
    2. He did right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of his father David and did not turn aside to the right or to the left.

    Matt. 23:35. so that upon you may fall the guilt of} all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

    Phil. 3:4. although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:
    5. circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
    6. as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

    Heb. 11:4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
    5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

    2 Peter 2:7. and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
    8. (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds),
    9. then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
    10. and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. (NASB, 1995)
     
  14. SovereignGrace

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    Is there an echo? If so, I'll echo, too..

     
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  15. SovereignGrace

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    He needs to exegete them for us, no?
     
  16. Internet Theologian

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    Yep. I don't see how any of the passages he's given have contradicted anything you've said. Should we just cut and paste the entire Bible as an answer and use up all the bandwidth?
     
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  17. SovereignGrace

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    This thread is the ultimate example of ppl not seeing how vile ppl really are. Ppl don't want to admit how wicked the lost really are. Just because they donate to charities, stand with anti-abortion ppl, are [email protected] marriage, does not mean they are NOT rotten to the core.
     
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  18. SovereignGrace

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    Well...well...well....I just believe the bible!!
     
  19. Internet Theologian

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    I recall R C Sproul blasting the ECT document (Evangelicals and Catholics Together) which made lame attempt to bring both together and for Evangelicals to name Catholics as brothers.

    This document attempted to make a co-belligerency against the alternative lifestyle, abortion, other issues. Sproul said something like we are already standing against this, on both sides, but that does not make us brothers. It was something along those lines.

    D James Kennedy also spoke up against it because it lamented attempts to evangelize Catholics, and Kennedy said something about him still evangelizing his own members in his own church, showing how absurd it is for them to worry about Catholics being evangelized.

    Standing against abortion, that lifestyle, giving to charities doesn't a saved person make, nor does it mystically reveal they must be born again, looky at what they are doing. :)
     
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  20. Internet Theologian

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    'I don't need theology, just Jesus'?

    I hear that too often. Which Jesus? Describe Him please.
     
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