Gospel of the Wolves

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by jimraboin, Sep 7, 2002.

  1. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Been pondering what Paul meant by encouraging the brothers to pattern themselves after the churches in Judea as compared with the idea that savage wolves would come after him and not spare the flock. If Paul's prophecy were true, we should be able to historically identify these wolves. Consider first:

    1 Thessalonians 2:14
    Acts 20:29
    At this point the entire Body of called out ones were of Israel and Israel's mindset. At what point was this vantage point changed? That would be the exact point these savage wolves entered the picture.

    Thoughts?

    Jim
     
  2. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Evidence of Wolverine Gospel...

    Chapter IX, Book I, "THE ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY, BY SOCRATES SCHOLASTICUS"
    gives this account of Nicaea.

    The Emperor's Letter.

    Notice here Constantine defends his Council because of "Divine Providence". Whose divinity? His? God's? How can we know for certain? Let's consider further.

    Socrates continues:

    Only three hundred? Any Jewish brothers from Israel invited? And simply because they are "dignified" on earth means they must be "enlightened" by God? But I digress.

    He continues:

    Jot down and remember this. Constantine claims their conclusions were not rash or random...though some sat in "suppressed silence". Consider further.

    He continues:

    No need to tell you that this anti Jewish hatred now Catholic foundation is not from God. Thus, we have clearly shown that "all error" was not removed from the Council. Was it? No. This is clearly a wolverine gospel. A gospel of hate and deception.

    The footnote states:

    So I ask you, if the Catholic Church was truly the only Church in the earth after the apostles passed on, then why would there be so much evidence that Messianic Jews who dearly loved Jesus, just as they had from the very first, why would there be so much evidence proving that they were systematically cut off from Rome's version of Christianity? No. Catholicism is another gospel based upon doctrines of devils. It is not the gospel the Jews first heard. Any institution who builds upon this other gospel has also built upon the wrong foundation.

    Thoughts?

    Jim

    [ September 07, 2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: jimraboin ]
     
  3. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not going to take much space here, since it is a waste of time with you blind folk. Until God opens your eyes to see, you will remain unable to see the obvious continuation of the Old Covenant in the New. You will continue to read on past those verses of Scripture which state that the Jews are indeed accursed of God because they have broken the Covenant of God as a people and have, as a nation, been divorced from the kingdom of God, which was given to the Church.

    You can come up with all the sophistries you wish, all the fancy names (Alexandrian, Platonic, etc.).

    Doesn't mean a hill of spit, as neither do your insults of the holy Catholic Church which our Lord established and to Whom you WILL answer one day for insulting as you do.
     
  4. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Well there you have it. Contemporary evidence that anti-semetism is the spirit of Catholicism.

    Fascinating.

    Jim
     
  5. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,

    So you believe that all devout Jewish people will be in Heaven? Just curious,

    Grant
     
  6. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life. Those who have him have eternal Life.

    Why do you ask?

    Jim
     
  7. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    You did not answer my question. Please read my question and answer it with a real answer, and we may continue our discussion. Will a devout Jew, one who is still waiting for a Messiah, be in Heaven?
     
  8. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    As I said, anybody...Jew or Gentile...who accepts Jesus as their Messiah and trusts in his blood will be saved.

    Likewise, anybody who rejects Jesus will not.

    Why do you ask this? You appear to be lumping all Jews into the non believing category. If you are, this would be worse than anti-semetism.

    Jim
     
  9. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    You make this so easy. Let me quote myself: "Will a devout Jew, one who is still waiting for a Messiah, be in Heaven? Now, for the third time, try again.
     
  10. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    You had better get to your point. If you cannot understand what I have given, you will not get it the third time.

    Jim
     
  11. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Wolverine Evidence with Clement.

    Clement (mid 100'-215 A.D.)

    Date of birth unknown; died about the year 215. St. Clement was an early Greek theologian and head of the catechetical school of Alexandria.

    "He became a convert to the Faith and traveled from place to place in search of higher instruction, attaching himself successively to different masters: to a Greek of Ionia, to another of Magna Graecia, to a third of Coele-Syria, after all of whom he addressed himself in turn to an Egyptian, an Assyrian, and a converted Palestinian Jew. At last he met Pantaenus in Alexandria, and in his teaching 'found rest'". Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04045a.htm

    Not only does Clement show his prejudice but he testifies that the brethren from Israel were still around and that he personally didn't accept their gospel. He accepted another one.

    Jim
     
  12. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    "Early Fathers wolverine gospel evidence"
     
    St. Justin: "For the circumcision according to the flesh, which is from Abraham, was given for a sign, that you may be separated from other nations and from us, and that you alone may suffer that which you now justly suffer, and that your land may be desolate and your cities burned with fire, and that strangers may eat your fruit in your presence and not one of you may go up to Jerusalem."

    St. Hippolytus: "Ills ...will befall them in the future age on account of the contumacy and audacity which they exhibited toward the Prince of Peace."

    Origen: "Their rejection of Jesus has resulted in their present calamity and exile. We say with confidence that they will never be restored to their former condition. For they committed a crime of the most unhallowed kind, in conspiring against the saviour."

    St. Gregory: Jews are "slayers of the Lord, murderers of the prophets, enemies of G-d, haters of G-d, adversaries of grace, enemies of their fathers' faith, advocates of the devil, brood of vipers, slanderers, scoffers, men of darkened minds, leaven of the Pharisees, congregation of demons, sinners, wicked men, stoners, and haters of goodness."

    St. Jerome: "...serpents, haters of all men, their image is Judas... their psalms and prayers are the braying of donkeys..."

    St. John Chrysostom: "I know that many people hold a high regard for the Jews and consider their way of life worthy of respect at the present time. This is why I am hurrying to pull up this fatal notion by the roots... A place where a whore stands on display is a whorehouse. What is more, the synagogue is not only a whorehouse and a theater: it is also a den of thieves and a haunt of wild animals... not the cave of a wild animal merely, but of an unclean wild animal...

    "When animals are unfit for work, they are marked for slaughter, and this is the very thing which the Jews have experienced. By making themselves unfit for work, they have become ready for slaughter. This is why Christ said, 'as for my enemies, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.' "

    St. Augustine: "Judaism is a corruption. Indeed, Judas is the image of the Jewish people. Their understanding of the Scriptures is carnal. They bear the guilt for the death of the saviour, for through their fathers they have killed the Christ."

    St. Thomas Aquinas: "It would be licit to hold Jews, because of their crimes, in perpetual servitude, and therefore the princes may regard the possessions of Jews as belonging to the State."

    Martin Luther: "If we are to remain unsullied by the blasphemy of the Jews and do not wish to take part in it, we must be separated from them, and they must be driven out of the country."
     
  13. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,

    So you believe that all devout Jewish people will be in Heaven? Just curious,

    Grant
    </font>[/QUOTE]That's funny because the USCCB was suggesting that very thing.

    http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/archives/2002/02-154.htm
     
  14. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,

    So you believe that all devout Jewish people will be in Heaven? Just curious,

    Grant
    </font>[/QUOTE]That's funny because the USCCB was suggesting that very thing.

    http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/archives/2002/02-154.htm
    </font>[/QUOTE]So now the Catholic Church says all Jews go to Heaven? But jimbaron just said that the church said they had no place! Hmm, perhaps you both are taking things well out of context (historicly and connotatively) to further perpetuate your displeasure with a Church body you refuse to attempt to reckon with.
     
  15. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Another proof Catholic institution is built upon vain imaginations. If natural branches can be removed who is Catholic institution to say they will go to Heaven?

    Let's stay focused on the facts. At which point did the Gospel from Israel change to another gospel...a gospel of wolves?

    Jim
     
  16. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,

    So you believe that all devout Jewish people will be in Heaven? Just curious,

    Grant
    </font>[/QUOTE]That's funny because the USCCB was suggesting that very thing.

    http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/archives/2002/02-154.htm
    </font>[/QUOTE]So now the Catholic Church says all Jews go to Heaven? But jimbaron just said that the church said they had no place! Hmm, perhaps you both are taking things well out of context (historicly and connotatively) to further perpetuate your displeasure with a Church body you refuse to attempt to reckon with.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Historically, the position of the Catholic church has been to kill Jews or to force them to be baptized as if that instantly turned them into Christians. And now the USCCB has proposed that good Jews are going to heaven and thus don't need to be evangelized. Looks like they have no idea about what they're talking about.
     
  17. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Thanks Dual,

    Looks like you have found the wolverine gospel.

    Bless you and yours,

    Jim
     
  18. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    The paper put out by the bishops was NOT an authorative encyclical. Therefore, it represents the musings of the bishops and is in no way an OFFICIAL DECLARATION of the Church or an official statement of doctrine.

    As such, it is deeply flawed and should be tossed in the trash. However, I have no doubt that it will provide excellent ammunition for you bigots for decades to come. There is nothing like a mistake to give your enemies all the proof they want that you are wrong.

    If you wish to find an AUTHORITIVE statement from the Church, please go to either the Catholic Catechism or the recently published "DOMINUS IESUS" by our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II. Dominus Iesus was so forthright in stating that salvation comes only through Christ and only through His Church that all the non Christians who read it spent weeks howling in indignation.

    My response?

    TOUGH!!

    Of course, I doubt this truth will change your minds one iota. You are determined to believe what you wish to believe (which is your privilege) and say the bigoted garbage you wish to say (which again is your privilege). I'm just trying to set the record straight.

    Brother Ed
     
  19. jimraboin

    jimraboin
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Still way off course from my original post.

    Who can tell me who, what and when these ravenous wolves didn't spare the flock? From our vantage point looking through hindsight, we should easily be able to spot them via history.

    Jim
     
  20. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just the fact that they were considering it shows that they have no idea what they're talking about. Don't you find it disturbing that you a member of the laity know better than the American Bishops?
     

Share This Page

Loading...