Government scientists report political interference in their work

Discussion in 'Politics' started by The Galatian, Jan 30, 2007.

  1. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    About half of government scientists responding to a poll have experienced pressure by the Bush administration to downplay data that shows global warming, and:

    43 percent of respondents reported edits during review of their work that changed the meaning of their findings.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16886008/?GT1=8921

    A senior scientist for NASA went public about attempts to silence him, forcing the administration to back off, but many scientists were not able to do that. They report hundreds of alterations in reports that change them substantially.

    With democrats in Congress eager to find dirt on Dubya, he seems to have been eager to help them.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    And there's no chance these guys are lying right? Especially since more and more data is coming out showing that global warming is far from a sure thing, and probably a complete farce.

    BTW, funny thing yesterday ... Did you see Al Gore give Prince Charles an award for being green? What a joke. Here is a guy who is farther from green than you can imagine. He got a little credit for canceling a vacation that most people could not even take.

    These guys are hilarious.
     
  3. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
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    I don't believe that any more than I believe man has caused global warming. Just more left wing propaganda.
     
  4. Magnetic Poles

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    A really informative book on this is the NY Times Bestseller, "The Republican War on Science" by Chris Mooney.
     
  5. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    And there's no chance these guys are lying right?

    Ah, the scientists are the liars. That's the ticket. They are, after all, "reality-based", which is a dirty word in the White House right now.

    "The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

    This kind of craziness is 20% 1960s "make your own reality", 50% greed, and 30% postmodern arrogance. Bush doesn't have the intellectual wherewithal to figure out just how nutty those ideas actually are.

    Someone's had a little fun with your trust in them. Even Bush now admits that it's a fact, and that it's probably due to human activities.

    The new information is even more grim:

    CCSM3 shows global temperatures could rise by 2.6 degrees Celsius (4.7 degrees Fahrenheit) in a hypothetical scenario in which atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide are suddenly doubled. That is significantly more than the 2 degree Celsius (3.6 degree Fahrenheit) increase that had been indicated by the preceding version of the model. William Collins, an NCAR scientist who oversaw the development of CCSM3, says researchers have yet to pin down exactly what is making the model more sensitive to an increased level of carbon dioxide. But he says the model overall is significantly more accurate than its predecessor. "This model makes substantial improvements in simulating atmospheric, oceanic and terrestrial processes," Collins says. "It has done remarkably well in reproducing the climate of the last century, and we're now ready to begin using it to study the climate of the next century."
    http://globalchange.gov/#CCSM

    The more accurate we get, the worse it looks. That's part of the reason why a group of CEOs from large corporations have asked Bush to get a plan together to reduce CO2 emissions.

    There will be some winners in a warmer world, but the US won't be among them.
     
    #5 The Galatian, Jan 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2007
  6. Bro. Curtis

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    The scientists also reported 435 instances of political interference in their work over the past five years.

    Lets see them. This article seems vague, & one sided. Bush could be prosecuted under the RICO statutes, if this were true.
     
  7. Pete

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    :laugh: If Dubya's into it that's all the more reason to discount it all :D
     
  8. The Galatian

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    Congressional investigations are gearing up now. We already know of examples.

    Previously it was reported that Mr. George Deutsch, the young public-affairs officer at NASA headquarters who was accused of political interference with material written by NASA scientists (see 4 February), was a "2003 journalism graduate of Texas A&M". However, blogger Nick Anthis discovered[6] that Mr. Deutsch in fact left Texas A&M in the summer of 2004, without a degree, to join George Bush's re-election campaign. According to school records he never returned, Mr. Antis reported.
    http://arshermeneutica.org/besieged/Incidents_2006#February_6.2C_NASA.27s_Deutsch_Faked_Credentials

    "George C. Deutsch, who tried to muzzle top NASA climate scientist James Hansen and ordered NASA web designers to add the word 'theory' to every mention of the Big Bang, has resigned. The New York Times reports that NASA declines to discuss the reasons for his resignation, but that it came the same day that Texas A&M University, from which Deutsch claimed on his resume to have graduated, revealed that he had attended the university but did not complete his degree."
    http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/08/1240226

    Deutsch apparently learned well about the undesirability of reality-based thinking; unfortunately for Deutsch, Texas A&M seems to have retained a tie to reality.

    Hanson, one of the best climatologists around, took umbrage at attempts to doctor research findings, and his public denunciation of the attempt led to the removal of this yahoo.
     
  9. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    In Texas we say that even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott
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    Are we going to be able to go back to 1942-45, when the feds hid the Manhattan Project and gave all kinds of red herrings for the multitudes of people heading to enormous research buildings for jobs they were threatened into not talking about?
     
  11. Terry_Herrington

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    Maybe he should be!
     
  12. El_Guero

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    There is lot's of greenbacks in promoting green politics . . .

    . . . or in promoting non-green politics.

    Mammon is the root of?



     
  13. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    Now that the government isn't in the hands of just one group, expect more truth to leak out.

    The problem is obviously greater than previously suspected. We will likely be learning just how much greater.
     
  14. StefanM

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    I trust the scientists.
     
  15. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    In considering the question of human activity and climate change it is essential to distinguish between global warming, which is a progressive increase in the annual mean global temperature, and human-activity-induced greenhouse warming, as may, for example, be caused by the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere as a result of fossil fuel combustion or deforestation.Almost no meteorologist denies that the mean global temperature has increased by about 0.5° C over the century and a half for which we have enough observational data to estimate a global mean. Nevertheless, it remains true today, as it was concluded in the 1990 IPCC report (Reference 7, page 254), that:
    [FONT=arial,helv,sans-serif]...it is not possible at this time to attribute all, or even a large part, of the observed global-mean warming to (an) enhanced greenhouse effect on the basis of the observational data currently available.[/FONT]


    http://naturalscience.com/ns/letters/ns_let07.html
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    The truth remains that global warming is far from settled. There is simply not enough information on the topic to know. We are looking at way to small a slice of human history, and ignoring the fact that 30 years ago (when green house gases and pollution were far worse) people were warnign about a coming ice age.

    Global warming may be real, but there is no hard science behind it.

    <personal attack deleted - LE>

    Face it folks: We just don't know whether global warming exists and we don't know exactly what is causing it.
     
    #16 Pastor Larry, Jan 31, 2007
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  17. The Galatian

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    You've been had on that one, Larry. I remember what scientists were saying back then. I first read of concern over greenhouse gases and global warming from Paul Erlich in 1968. By the 70s, a lot of scientists were concerned about warming. Don't remember any predicting a new ice age.

    Although there was a cooling trend then, it should be realised that climate scientists were perfectly well aware that predictions based on this trend was not possible - because the trend was poorly studied and not understood (for example see reference[10]). However in the popular press the possibility of cooling was reported generally without the caveats present in the scientific reports.

    The term "global cooling" did not become attached to concerns about an impending glacial period until after the term "global warming" was popularized. In the 1970s the compilation of records to produce hemispheric, or global, temperature records had just begun.

    Wikipedia

    Scientists disagree with you. A vast body of data has made that impossible to deny. Even many former doubters and politicians whose supporters had financial reasons to deny warming, now admit the obvious. The climate is warming, and at an increasing rate. Would you like to see some of the hard data?

    <deleted - LE>

    Barbarian is pointing out that even deniers like Bush are now admitting the truth. There's no point in denial now.

    <personal attack, etc. deleted - LE>
    You've not kept up to date on your talking points. The spin now, is "yes we have global warming, but it's natural."
     
    #17 The Galatian, Jan 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2007
  18. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Dr. William Grey who is one of the most respected meteorologists and the one man who everyone looks to for the forcast of the hurricane season from year to year says the following:

    1. No one who studies hurricanes for any length of time is convinced of man made GW

    2. The warming trend as it currently exists is going to change and begin to cool. We are at the end of a natural warming cycle.

    3. Global Warming studies are funded by grants from special intrest. And those who support GW as a man made cause are beholden to those grants. GW centers all around money.

    http://podserv.jamesspann.com/wb052206.mp3
     
  19. Magnetic Poles

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    Respected by whom? This is merely the logical fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

    Really? Like who? No one at all?

    How does anyone possibly know this? That is speculation.

    Again, how about something to back this up. What studies? What "special interests"?

    I will add that I am always skeptical about claims until I see convincing evidence, but I do see evidence of global warming, and precious little against it. Some claim it is a natural cycle, but we just don't know that. It makes sense to be good stewards of this planet, since it is the only one we have that can support our kind of life.

     
    #19 Magnetic Poles, Feb 1, 2007
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  20. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Logical fallacy of appeal to authority? He is an authority because he has proven himself to be reliable.



    So are you suggesting that we can know about amn made global warming with a certainty but not the other way? If you go back and look at the history of the cooling and warming cycles it runs in approx 30 year cycles. it has doe this as far back as we have kept records. But I suggest you actually listen to him yourself at the link I posted.



    Again listen to him yourself.
     

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