Grace

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by donnA, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. donnA

    donnA
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    What is your defination of grace, or what scripture do you use to help you understand grace and what it means?
     
  2. untangled

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    Hey Sister,

    Well, I try to see things simply. Although I do know the greek word for it. It is from the greek word charis. Here's the short definition:

    of manner or act- acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, joy liberality, pleasure, thanks worthy

    As for my verse, Eph. 2:8.

    I am saved by grace through faith. Salvation is not something I deserve. Only by God's grace am I able to have a relationship with Him.

    In His Grace,

    unTangled
     
  3. donnA

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    I think of grace as being something I do not deserve and God gives anyway, I did nothing for Him to give it to me, whether or not it be salvation or whatever. I also like your verse.
    I asked because I frequently see and hear people who obviously misunderstand grace and think you have to do something. God's blessing or favor are grace, we do nothing it is because of Him and Him alone. It is based on God, not on me. God chooses who to give grace too, again His chosing has nothing to do with me or my acts or choices.
     
  4. TexasSky

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    Grace is offered to all.
    It is not forced upon people.
    Grace is a gift from God.
    It is not forced upon people.

    Choosing to accept the gift God offers is not taking authority out of His hands. It is not reducing Him. It is not removing "control" from His authority.

    It is simply accepting what He has offered.

    God wants man to return His love.

    I am very tired of the cliche nonsense that accepting a gift is removing power from the giver, because it IS nonsense.
     
  5. jdcanady

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    donnA:

    You are correct, Grace, when referring to God's gifts, is "unmerited favor". Like all words, it has varying meanings according to the context.

    It could mean a general favor, such as

    Matt 5:45 "for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

    It could refer to "enabling grace". Which means God strengthens the believer for service, such as God telling Paul, "My grace is sufficient for you" 2 Cor. 12:9 and in 1 Tim 1:14 and Hebrews 4:16 there is a similar reference to "enabling grace."

    It is often used as in prayers, usually at the beginning of letters, which probably refers to "enabling grace" as well.

    It could refer to salvific grace: Many times including a reference to God's choosing some for salvation, such as

    Rom 11:5 "In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

    and many other places already mentioned of God's pouring out His grace on His saints.

    Many confuse the general grace shown to all, with a "general" call to salvation. This is clearly, and repeatedly, demonstrated to be a false understanding of salvific grace throughout scripture.

    Good question, I hope this helps some.
     
  6. donnA

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    jdcanady, yes it does help, I guess I had never seperated the two either, but thinking back over scripture it does make sense.
     
  7. Timtoolman

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    Only problem with that JCandy is that most people don't buy into your calvinistic view. The general call to salvation is everything scriptural. And it is God's grace. How things can be so called demonstrated to be false and yet so many believers see otherwise. It is a very prideful and cocky attitude of the followers of the teachings of John lCalvin.
     
  8. Timtoolman

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    God's grace is Jesus Christ! The atonement for the world.
     
  9. jdcanady

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    Timtoolman

    You said:

    "Only problem with that JCandy is that most people don't buy into your calvinistic view. The general call to salvation is everything scriptural. And it is God's grace. How things can be so called demonstrated to be false and yet so many believers see otherwise. It is a very prideful and cocky attitude of the followers of the teachings of John lCalvin."

    I follow the teachings of Christ found in scripture. I have never read John Calvin, but I have read some things about him. Some I have agreed with, and some I have disagreed with.

    I do agree with Calvin that we should base what we believe on the clear teaching of the whole of scripture, and not on a verse or two, taken out of context.

    Words have meaning in the context that they are written, and we should do everything we can to put our bias aside and not read into any text what we think it ought to mean.
     
  10. donnA

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    I for one do not believe when something is required of us it can still be called grace, because it isn't.
     
  11. TexasSky

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    Donna,

    If I give you a million dollars, for no other reason than I want you to have a million dollars, I have shown grace to you. However, for that million dollars to do any good you have to accept it; you have to put it to use; you have to cash the check.

    Well, God gave us His son as a living sacrifice for our sins. God gave us the message of His grace, and said, "Here is my pardon. You can't earn it, you don't deserve it, but here it is."

    You have to accept it though.

    Besides, the bible actually says "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

    It says, flat out, damnation is the result of a willful and intentional action on man's part - the willful and intentional act of NOT accepting the truth.
     
  12. Timtoolman

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    No problem there jdcandy, I agree with your last post. Its just that there are numerous verses that refute calvin's veiw, and again most of christiandom(born again believers) does not believe the teachings of John Calvin.


    TexasSky, well said, I think donna had already made up her mind though. She is of the mindset that recieving a gift makes it earned. That is nothing but calvinistic redefing of terms. It is really, honestly one of the most silliest arguements coming out of the mouths of calvinist. I think it hurts their case more then anything. For a person who says recieving a gift is a work has shot his creditbitilty to even the lowest of IQ.
     
  13. donnA

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    doing anything is not grace, we can not campare God and His grace to anything else, it is beyond our full complete understanding becasue we live having to earn everything and we can not see it anyother way.
     
  14. TexasSky

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    The word "grace" translates from the Greek as "merciful kindness."

    His Merciful Kindness is offered to everyone, and He allows, permits, man to accept or reject that.

    The bible says, clearly, that men perish because they refuse.

    It is not merciful or kind of say, "only a few can be saved."
     
  15. Timtoolman

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    Right over her head Texas.

    Donna do you work? When your boss hands you your check ask him to pay you a little bit more because of the "work" you have to do to recieve it. Be prepared to look for anohter job.

    ;)
     
  16. Leana

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    There's a good illustration posted under the "Clean Humor" forum, in "The Pearly Gate" post regarding 'grace'.
     
  17. Rachel

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    Are we talking about grace or calvinism here? I'm confused.

    Isn't grace still grace no matter what you do with it?? If you treat someone with grace when it's not deserved (like anyone does deserve it) then isn't that still grace? Or talking to unbeliever's about Jesus, talking to them with equal amounts of grace and truth? If it's all truth like 'you're going to hell you sinner!' then that would most likely turn them off. If it's only grace maybe they think God is only about Love and everyone is going to Heaven regardless. Thinking about it, isn't grace and truth equally more Christ-like?
     
  18. donnA

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    GRACE! It's free, nothing to do, or it isn't grace, and it isn't free. Many misunderstand the concept of grace being free, with no requirements.
     
  19. donnA

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    i don't work, tim, I've always been home taking care of my husband. a pay check isn't free, and it isn't grace. discrption totally leaves out the possiblitiy of God being different then man.
     
  20. TexasSky

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    Quoting Augustine (354 AD - 430 AD): The Apostle James says to such: "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man. But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
     

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